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Gaia Angel 
She who Dreams with Dolphins
Posts: 355
(12/17/03 5:58 pm)
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Hindu:Sanatana Dharma
Sanatana Dharma

Hinduism, known as Sanatana Dharma (everlasting religion/truth/rule) to practitioners, was founded in India, where it is still practiced by eighty percent of the people. It is more than a religion in the Western sense. It is also a way of life. Man is limited, but the Supreme Being isn't. Because of our inability to comprehend the infinite, we may look upon Hinduism as polytheistic, but, according to Sunil Balasubramaniam, "Hinduism worships multiple forms of the one God."

It is not easy to define Hinduism, for it is more than a religion in the Western sense, as our Ancient History Guide sees it. Also known to practitioners as Sanatana Dharma, which means everlasting or eternal religion/truth/rule, Hinduism can best be defined as a way of life based on the teachings of ancient sages and scriptures like the Vedas and the Upanishads. The word dharma connotes "that which supports the universe" and effectively means any path of spiritual discipline which leads to God

starwind123 
Keeper of the Sacred Arts
Posts: 62
(12/19/03 11:27 pm)
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Re: Bhagavad-Gita a comparison to pagandom
Bhagavad-Gita

Selected Concepts
A Comparison to Buddhist and Pagan Philosophies


"Every variety of Hindu philosophy has its source in the
Upanisads, the Brahma Sutras of Badarayana of Vyasa
and the Bhagavad-Gita"

Ok .. now can I say that again .. In English :)

As with any study you have to know the Jargon ..
the terms and Language used, before anything you read
makes sense ..

Hindu Philosophy ..for starters ..there is no such thing
as One Way In Hindu, but on this they all agree ..
the Bhagavad-Gita .. all of the former.. the Upanisads,
the Brahma (teacher) sutras (work ) are works of the
Sages .. much like the Dharmas of Buddha .. in fact
they are almost Identical in many ways..Buddha was
accepted as a Brahma by the early Hindu..and there is
a great deal of overlap between the system of the Brahma
sutras (Badarayana of Vyasa is a persons name and
clan)..and Buddhism .. like the concept of Karma
for example

Karma is a Hindu concept .. but is so interrelated with
Buddhism, which we tend to think of as more Asian,
that it is hard to tell where one religion stops
and the others begin ..

The Vedas, which are the earliest works, are a collection
of hymns which date back to 1200 BC. The Vedas present
the world according to mythology rather than philosophy.
Siddhattha (Buddha) would have been schooled in the Hindu
faith and therefore the Vedas .. as he was born
to a minor Royal house in India ..

The belief that the world is somehow a Mystical place
many Pagan paths share .. while we have in place some
firm Philosophies .. a great deal of what we do..has to do
with the Mythos of the race .. the part of the mind
that can see beyond the here and now ..

The basic way of all Hindu faiths
and the Bhagavad-gita in particular .. is a simple one

Its not what a man does, but how he does it..
What did he do it for ?
What state is his mind in ?
What are his intentions ?
Does he act only for self gain ?
Is the outcome more important than the work ?
This is what determines if the action is right or wrong
The Will ..if the will is correct..there is no "Sin"
sounds familiar ? :)

Love is the law, Love under will ..
there is no Law beyond do what thou will
and if your will is driven by love .. as it should be ..
there is no error in the action

Connection with the Spirit is the Goal here ..
and the Hindu realize that there are many paths
to this end.."and no path is to be preferred exclusively
and none to be disdained "

Which sounds a lot like the Pagan Paths..in that we Know
the paths are many..each man must walk that road
how they see it and any way that gets there,is valid

This seeking of the Way .. an End to uncertainty and
suffering is a human concept .. the questions of
Why are we here ? Why do we suffer in life ?
What can be done about the suffering ?
Where to we go when we die ?
These are questions called Brahma-jiijnasa ..
The questions of the human mind about the :Absolute:

These sound pretty familiar don't they ? :)
They are questions that intelligent persons have tried
to answer, to there own satisfaction, for eons ..
The Absolute ? Is the One .. the All .. The Force ..
the Essence of the Godhead as the Gita would say ..

There are 5 basic truths to the Bhagavad-Gita

Isvara = The Controller or Godhead
Jivas = The Controlled .. or Living things
Prakrti =The Material Nature of things
Time = The duration of existence
Karma = The effects of actions taken

In real simple terms this means
Every living thing is subject to a higher law..I can walk
with that .. :) That some things just happen because its
their nature to happen ( I could say something tacky here
but I'll hush :) ..that things have a limited life span
(Everything..even the mountains wear down over time)
The cycle of Birth..Life..Death..and Re birth ..is how
things work ..and that the actions living things take
that have independent action..effect what happens
to it in this life

What you put out you get back .. times Three ..
so says the Rede :)

Buddha might say .. trouble comes to all lives
but how we respond to it .. is all that matters
All trouble is fleeting and for the souls sake has little
meaning .. this life is transitory .. and should be
transcended to the higher places .. all things are mortal
and therefore short lived .. the soul however is eternal

If you transcend this cycle of birth and re birth by your
actions, or live a life that gains such karma as to demand
life again, to amend the fault, is up to you

A lot of these basic concepts were .. re thought
(even though they didn't know it Was rethinking it)
in times of Revival by the old Masters of Philosophy
Plato..Immanuel Kant..Socrates..Aristotle upon which we
Westerns base a great deal of our thought .. Which just
goes to show Great Truths will find a way to manifest ..
even if separated by time and place .. and will arise
independent of any other input

Or as we Pagans like to say .. No matter what it is ..
Mother will find someone to say it .. if it needs saying :)

We are all much the same on this spinning blue ball of ours
then .. now and into tomorrow .. Men and Women of faith
and good will will try to live life .. free of grief
and to help there fellows do the same .. As the Brahma's
did, As Buddha did .. as all the old Masters of Philosophy
did .. As we on the Pagan paths try to do :)

Blessed be the Great work .. Past and Present
and may the morrow be so bright with promise
We gotta wear shades :)


Right off the web site
Starwind

Blessings on your coming
Blessings on your going
Blessings on all your house

starwind123 
Keeper of the Sacred Arts
Posts: 63
(12/19/03 11:32 pm)
Reply

Re: Darmas of the Buddha and pagandom
The Sayings and Teachings of Buddha
The Dharmas
( Just a few of them..)

And the Pagan way

Most people shy away from the Oriental teachings
As they often seem more riddle than rhyme

There are over 8000 Dharmas of the Buddha,
And many other books and teachings besides

I have selected just a few for you here...
So you may see we are not so different after all... :)

The Noble Eight Fold Path

The Noble Eight fold Path is:



Right Understanding
The understanding of things as they really are;
the knowledge of the 4 Noble Truths

This is understanding the reality of the world and ourselves
not as we have been told they are.. but how they really are..
This call to reality is the way of the Goddess,
in that She expects that we view the world
with open eyes that can see the truth.


Right Thought
Includes benevolent and loving kindness thoughts,
which are the opposites of ill will and cruelty respectively

True loving thoughts are hard, as not all people and things are,
to our mind lovable.. but to reach true peace one must learn to love all things...
only with love can we act and be certain
that we intentionally harm none


Right Speech
Not lying, slandering, using harsh words
and engaging in frivolous talks

This ones real simple.. what you put out ,
even in thought ,comes back to you
and any of the ills the mouth is capable of,
comes under that heading


Right Action
Refraining from killing, stealing, and sexual misconduct.

The first two are pretty apparent.. but sexual misconduct in this case.. means to want it
above all things..the Way teaches that Sex is wonderful and should be enjoyed as all
acts of pleasure are the Mothers rituals, but that it should not be placed above any
other thing in which one takes joy.


Right Livelihood
Not having occupation that trades in arms, human beings,
live stock, intoxicating drinks, and poisons.

In Buddha's time these things, where the main things ,on the list of no nos for a trade..
now the list has grown.. we on the Path say one should not be doing for a living what
will cause harm.. period

"and it harm none" means just that..


Right Effort
Effort made to eradicate/reduce evil-doings
and effort made to promote/enhance good deeds.

To work for the good of all.. this is the essence of the Craft... to quell the ill will of
carelessness and to promote the good will of mankind towards each other.. We are
expected to act... to create.. not just think about it..but to take action to make these
things a reality whenever, wherever possible.


Right Mindfulness
Being mindful
of body, mind.

Meaning not being careless and neglectful of the self..
your health both mental and physical. The Great Mother of us all frowns very much on
self abuse through careless neglect. we are not a fit tool in her hands
if we don't take care of us too...


Right Concentration
One-pointedness of the mind
as can be seen and achieved in meditation.

If our mind is clear and focused on the task at hand.. we will act accordingly to reality..
its when we run about and scream and shout that things get messed up. We are
expected to be in control of ourselves and any good practicing pagan tries
to live up to this ideal state.


A Bodhisatta in the course of helping others,
practices the Perfection's:


Generosity
Morality
Renunciation
Wisdom
Energy
Patience
Truthfulness
Determination
Loving kindness
Equanimity

PRACTICING THE 6 PERFECTION'S


Giving

Giving one's possessions, virtues, even one's body if needed.
Giving of fearlessness, or protection to others.
Practicing mentally giving to others.
Giving of Dharma, the teachings.

To give.. it does not say give if its convenient.. nope.. we are the caregivers of the
world and up to and including to lay down our life if need be... our best wishes should
be on all the time..our acts and thought should be one..

Out of real love for our fellow man. Easy no... the guy that cuts ya off on the freeway.. is
real hard to love.. the gal at work who is trying to get you fired because
she don't like you.. is real hard to love..
but do they deserve our love..?

Yes.. if for no other reason than they live.. yes..and our blessing maybe just
what they need to get their head
outa their anal orifice and get with the program :)


Ethics

Keeping one's vows.
Working for sentient beings.
Restraining from negative actions.
Collecting merit (with the motivation of helping others)

Promises, promises.. does a Pagans word mean something..?
It should.. if the person is practicing the Way in earnest it does...
consider all aspects before you act..
will this act do harm..? if no. then Go for it..

But we must consider ALL aspects of a thing.. before we act...


Patience

Having patience in understanding Dharma and gaining faith.
Being undisturbed by anguish from suffering.
Practice patience before getting angry.
Having patience in accepting problems.
Being undisturbed by inflicted harm.

Ooooo this ones a bear... ! My personal pain in the butt ...Anger.. the need to have
patience.. undisturbed by the harm of others.. I got a long way to go on this one.. but I
do try.. and stop.. breath.. think that there might be a reason for their actions besides
their a smuck...!

As this is what we are supposed to do..
as does it not harm another that we ill wish them
when they harm us..?

Yes.. even if they have earned well the Karma
they are gonna get for it..
it is NOT our job to dish it out very often...
something to consider.. ? :)


Joyous Effort / Perseverance

Collecting merit and helping others
Delighting in virtue and every beneficial action.
Avoiding putting off; craving worldly pleasures and discouragement

Well the first two are pretty self explanatory.. help each other..
its what we are here for... feel good when things go right.. :)
but... ditching our responsibilities, spending too much time
getting our own jollies and in general giving in to frustration
and postponement of tasks...?

Nope . Not.. ! Pain or not.. things are set for us to do...
and we should get on with them ,with as much joy as possible


Concentration

Developing quiescence; single pointedness,
stability & firmness (meditation)
This brings great progress in any meditation practice
and supernatural powers.

Cultivating inner needs: to have few wants
and generating contentment
, abandoning demands of the world,
and have pure ethics.

Creating outer needs: conducive places:
quiet, easy food & water, a blessed place,
that is not too comfortable and a helper.

Well I would love to be able to have a helper
and a quiet place with food and drink in easy reach
that one didn't have to go labor for.. but Buddha also meant
that one should learn to live with only what ones needs to live..
and spent ones energies on more important things..
like self improvement..

To become a Buddha is to become enlightened..
and I cant think of a better thing to become..
as the more educated in reality you are the better things get ..
for the world and for you in particular...


Wisdom

Generating ultimate wisdom (emptiness)
to achieve liberation and Buddha hood.
Generating relative wisdom in practicing
the first five perfection's and understanding karma
Wisdom and compassion are the foundations

To be wise is not to be smart..
or massively learned in facts and old knowledge..
many make this mistake
in equating book knowledge with wisdom..

The two are not necessarily related..
becoming a better person..
is the ultimate path of the Wise..

All training to be a Witch is surrounded
by the path of self improvement... which starts always
on the road to the cleansing of the self..
of all the garbage and misconceptions stuffed in the head ...
this is the real act of becoming wise..


Do not accept anything on mere hearsay...by mere tradition...
just because it accords with your scriptures...

By mere supposition...
By mere inference...
By merely considering appearances...
Because it agrees with your preconceived notions....

When you know for yourselves these things are moral...blameless...
praised by the wise, these things performed and undertaken,
conductive to well-being and happiness-
then do you live and act accordingly

from Kindred Sayings
Buddha

I love this one.... and with half an effort you can see why... :)
you accept what makes sense.. what you filter through your own mind..and as with
becoming wise , lose the preconceptions..
and see things for truth..

Not just because they sound good.. but because they are good
and you know they are good.. as you have figured it out by yourself..
no one had to tell you ...this is what Meditation is all about.. the still mind.. coming to
understand the truth with clarity.. for you.. by you...
there is no need for any other to corroborate it...


"Sometime, somewhere,
you take something to be the truth.
If you cling to it so much,
even when the truth comes in person
and knocks on your door,
you will not open it."

Shakyamuni Buddha

This is us.. clinging to our worn out notions
and self delusions of reality..

We all have them.. most of the time we couldn't even tell you
were they came from.. but we like them.. and if we give them up
we are put to the trouble of having to consider the simple fact we may
have based our actions on a falsehood, ..
which made all we did ... wrong.

We will hang onto that "truth" for dear life..
rather than admit..it was not the truth...

You have all seen this.. show a person the truth
about something dead to their face and have them swear up and down
you are the one mistaken..

As to admit the real truth means.. all they are ... is challenged..
and rather than change their self perception..
they will ignore the truth..when its staring em eye to eye....
this is not the Way..

The Pagan path does not allow for this kind of self deception..
( shouldn't anyway )

We are expected to open the door.. its why we train others who seek training for a Year
and a day as its called.... and most of that training has little to do with the Craft..

Its a self examination ...
and re birth into a person more in touch with themselves..
and reality.. they can take it from there on their own... :)



By oneself alone is evil done:
By oneself is one defiled.
By oneself alone is evil avoided:
By oneself alone is one purified.
Purity and impurity depend on oneself.
No one can purify another

from The Dhammapada
Shakyamuni Buddha

This is the Buddha on Karma.. but look how it reads..
you and you alone are responsible for you..
your actions.. your non action...
if you mess up you have to own it,
and make whatever amends are needed...
only you can forgive you.. only you can clean up
after yourself.. no one can do this for you..
sound familiar...?


Hatreds never cease through hatred in this world;
through love alone they cease.
This is an eternal law.

Shakyamuni Buddha
from The Dhammapada

Love is the Law.. love under will
whatever thou wilt shall be the whole of law..

Which has been misinterpreted
and taken a million ways but what it means.
is just what the above says.. Hate cannot stop hate..
only love can stop the pain..If your actions are rooted in love..
then your will is the only law that matters


Do your best and do it according to your own inner standard -
call it conscience - not just according to society's knowledge
and judgment of your deeds."

His Holiness the Dalai Lama

We are all our own judge...
there is no one else who CAN judge what we do..
as no one else really knows what's in our heart or mind..
what others know or don't know does not matter..

WE know.. the Great Mother knows our intent...
we are the best judge of what is right.. .. for us.... this is our power
and our strength.. if we have loving hearts and a true love
for our fellows and act on the principal that we harm none...then

There is no act we can take that is "wrong"..with this in mind
The so-called rules of society or others opinions, be damned..
and even my saying that is not to lovely , but you get the point.. :)


'I am the owner of my actions
heir to my actions,
born from my actions,
related through my actions,
and have my actions as my judge.

Whatever I do - for good or for evil - that I will inherit...

Shakyamuni Buddha

This is Karma.. this is also the Rede
of whatever you do comes back to you..~

And Just to show that you don't have to be Buddhist
to come to these conclusions


"A human being is part of a whole,
called by us the 'universe',
a part limited in time and space.
He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings,
as something separate from the rest
- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

This delusion is a kind of prison for us,
restricting us to our personal desires
and to affectation for a few people near us.
Our task must be to free ourselves
from this prison by widening our circles of compassion
to embrace all living creatures
and the whole of nature in its beauty."

Albert Einstein

right off the web site

blessings
Starwind

Blessings on your coming
Blessings on your going
Blessings on all your house

starwind123 
Keeper of the Sacred Arts
Posts: 64
(12/19/03 11:42 pm)
Reply

Re: The Buddha.. Man or God ?
Buddha .. Man or God ?
And does the answer to that really matter ?


A short history .. the facts as they are known .. as Buddha was a living man with a family and history .. the readers digest version

Followed by my thoughts on the Man , the Divine .. the Buddha Excerpts from several sources .. see page bottom for
references

" Gotama was born in Lumbini Park ,
( Near Nepal, India , under a tree so it is said )
in the year 653 B.C. He belonged to Khatiya clan of Kapilavastu.
The Buddha's father was Suddhodana, the king of Kapilavastu.
His mother Maya died seven days after his birth "

" His family name was Gotama but he was called " Siddhattha " Which means " He whose aim is accomplished "
At an early age he was married to " Yasodhara "
a beautiful princess and they had a son named " Rahula" .

"At the age of twenty nine, he informed his father of his determinationto renounce the luxurious life for the quest of Enlightenment, and therefore find a way leading to the welfare of man."

" He took it upon himself
to find the origin of suffering and learn how to overcome it.
He did this for his own understanding and for the good of all people"

" At Uruvela he met Brahmin ( the Religion of the day ) priests
and under their guidance studied the various schools of Hindu philosophy."

" He then led the life of a hermit and came to a hermitage run by an ascetic Kondanya.
There he became one of many, who devoted themselves to extreme forms of Self Mortification. He was told that such asceticism could purify the mind "

" For six years he practiced every possible method of Self Mortification.But Gotama realized that neither the mystical speculation of the Brahmins nor Self Mortification would help him to discover the way to Man's liberation."

"On the contrary , ascetic practice might lead him to self delusion Gotama then took a seat in the forest of Uruvela under the famous Bodhi tree resolving that he would not abandon his quest until he had attained the Enlightenment."

( At age 35 .. he attained it )

" When this knowledge, this insight had arisen within me,
my heart was set free from lusts,
set free from craving, set free from ignorance.
In me, thus emancipated, there arose the certainty of that emancipation.
And I come to know: Rebirth is at the end. The higher life has been fulfilled.
What had to be done has been accomplished."

" For the next forty five years, until his death at about eighty years of age,
he pursued his life's mission. "

" Then he passed into a state which is called Parinirvana,
and where he completed the process
he had begun under the Bodhi tree many years before "



Now that is the History .. of the man .. born Gotama Khatiya of clan Kapilavastu
A prince in a minor Royal house .. with the good life at his feet .. yet he gave that up
To pursue the life of a Seeker of Wisdom

Why ?

Because the World was not a pretty place he discovered beyond the Palace walls ..the world was full of hurt and suffering .. he wanted to know why ..beyond the apparent reasons of differences in status and income ..
as he found rich men who were unhappy and beggars who were serene ..

It took him many years and many different roads
But He "found" a way that worked .. not only for himself,
but for millions of people since that time

The Dharmas of the Buddha as his revelations are called ,
were not written down till some 200 years after his death
up to then , what was known was passed from priest to priest as an Oral tradition

While we may consider such feats of memory daunting..
( there are over 8000 Dharmas alone .. ) you have to remember Most people at this time were illiterate .. so memory was much better practiced than it is now in our world of books ..

Even so , there were some shifts and changes in that amount of time .. there was a council of priests , held In Sri Lanka ( one of many ), first century B. C. To expound and compare all the versions of the words of the Buddha ..
what they agreed on they put to paper ..

And for the first time the Sutras of the Buddha were written down ..it is from the Theravada's Pali Canon, that came from that council .. that we now have the Words of Buddha ... among them are : " Tripitaka (Pali: Tipitaka), or three baskets: The three sections of the canon are the Vinaya Pitaka (the monastic law), the Sutta Pitaka (words of the Buddha),and the Abhidamma Pitaka (the philosophical commentaries) "

The works that have been written on his words since .. Including my poor best here :) are almost without number .. and most of it makes damn good sense if you read it with some understanding .. most of its in plain language ..

As suffering can be avoided .. on many levels .. Mainly by choosing not to suffer

As simple as that sounds .. things happen .. yes .. but its does not mean we HAVE to grieve over it .. and some of what he found and passed on was just that simple ..but how often does one take the time to think about it ?

Which is just what he did .. a man who sought to live life .. without strife ..figured out a way that works quite well .. The Power of One .. amazing huh ?

His work includes things like :

The Noble Eight Fold Path
The 4 Noble Truths
PRACTICING THE 6 PERFECTION'S
The Kindred Sayings
The Dhammapada
.. and many many more ..

All of the above available on Companion work ... see below

His work , as it went, from Man to Man changed the face of Religion and beliefs throughout all of Asian , even under heavy opposition, .. its still hard to say sometimes where one religion starts and another ends as they are often based on the same principals .. the way of the Buddha ..

Which has branched out into literally every nation on Earth ..
Makes him happy to know that I am sure :) As that was his intention A dream well realized .. from the work of one .. lone .. ordinary .. man ..Who , by his efforts on the part of his fellow man, became .. extraordinary ..

Buddha did not seek fame or fortune .. he had that to start with and Knew the folly of it that riches and luxury were not the road to enlightenment .. within the self .. one finds that road

All the money in the world cannot buy it .. but A man may have it for free .. just for the asking .. gotta love that .. :)

Hail and Blessed Be
Gotama Khatiya of the clan Kapilavastu
Siddhattha , Son of Suddhodana and Maya
Husband to Yasodhara , Father of Rahula
First Priest of the Path .. of the Way to Enlightenment
Thank you for caring enough to spend your lifetime so well :)

BB
Starwind


Blessings on your coming
Blessings on your going
Blessings on all your house



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