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Suart
Amicus
Posts: 1042
(8/19/07 9:24 pm)
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Makedonski Georgija
Our Skanderbeg

page 1 of 3
by Robert Alagjozovski
9 May 2007

The heroic Skanderbeg's leadership qualities appear to be
just as much in demand today as 600 years ago.

SKOPJE, Macedonia | Dragi Mihajlovski never dreamed that
his literary exercise in historical memory and obsession
with past glory would soon be played out on the stage of
Macedonian public life.

In his book Mojot Skenderbey (My Skanderbeg), Mihajlovski,
a professor of English literature at Skopje University,
presents 13 stories of ordinary people who are moved or
preoccupied by their connection with the medieval hero.

The publication of My Skanderbeg coincided with last year's
600th-birthday celebrations for Gjergj Kastrioti, a man
revered by Albanians, who see him as a national hero, and
by Macedonians alike.


Although Mihajlovski's book is fiction, it, along with
other books, an international symposium, and a monumental
statue, became embroiled in a debate over how, and by whom,
Kastrioti should be honored today. The anniversary year
divided those who claim Skanderbeg as a founder of their
nation, caused a minor ruckus in Macedonian historical
circles, spawned a hit book, and left a shiny new monument
amid Skopje's tribe of neglected, graffiti-daubed "national
liberators."

"I did not want to write a biography or a history. I used
the figure of Skanderbeg to comment on our contemporary
reality, our narrow-mindedness, our confinement and
provinciality," said Mihajlovski in explaining the genesis
of his book, which won the Macedonian Writers Association
award for best fiction of 2006.

The author acknowledges that his book came out at an
auspicious time as public interest soared ahead of the
hero's anniversary.

“Although my friend Goran Stefanovski [Macedonia's
best-known playwright] phoned me from London to
congratulate me on my perfect timing, my interest in this
subject dates back to the '80s, when I was doing my M.A. on
the Skanderbeg theme in Anglo-Saxon literature,”
Mihajlovski said.

The 55-year-old scholar said that his interest rose again
in 2001, when ethnic Albanian guerrilla fighters calling
themselves the Skanderbeg Division took responsibility for
a series of terrorist attacks in Macedonia and southern
Serbia.

“Little is known about him, yet people continue to mystify,
vulgarize, and misuse his character,” Mihajlovski said.


A VOW FULFILLED

As Mihajlovski was creating his 13-sided reflection of
Skanderbeg in words, Albanians in the Macedonian capital
were getting ready to erect his massive statue in bronze:
an event that rather than uniting Macedonia's largest
ethnic minority served to drive another wedge among its
fractious parties.

A crowd of several thousand gathered on a square in
Skopje's Chair district on 28 November, Albanian
independence day, for the unveiling ceremony. On this date
in 1443, Albanians believe that Kastrioti abandoned his
Ottoman masters and began his quest to unite the fractious
Albanian princes under the black two-headed eagle banner,
now the Albanian state flag. Two-headed eagle balloons,
fireworks, and the odd gunshot added to the party
atmosphere.

Many of Macedonia's half-million Albanians had already
welcomed the nearly 6-meter-high equestrian figure as it
proceeded by truck from Tirana to Skopje, passing through
most of the larger Albanian towns in western Macedonia.

The mayor of Chair, Izet Mexhiti, gave a heroic flavor to
the day as he welcomed Ali Ahmeti, the leader of the short
Albanian insurrection in 2001, with the words, “Commander,
I have fulfilled my vow to bring Skanderbeg to this place."

After an internationally brokered agreement brought an end
to the fighting, Ahmeti transformed his guerilla force into
the most popular Albanian political force in Macedonia, the
Democratic Union for Integration (BDI).

“Skanderbeg fought to unite not only all Albanians, but
other peoples too, and he established values respected by
all,” Ahmeti addressed the crowd.

The international community was represented in force by the
ambassadors of the United States and Britain as well as the
European Union's special representative in Macedonia, Erwan
Fouere, and prominent figures from Albania and Kosovo.
Notably absent were high officials of the ethnic Macedonian
parties, headed by President Branko Crvenkovski and Prime
Minister Nikola Gruevski.

The highest-ranking ethnic Macedonian politician present,
Speaker of Parliament Ljubisa Georgievski, welcomed the
event as a gathering of “those who desire to unite around
Macedonia and further her road into Europe.”

DIVISIVE HERO

Another prominent Albanian politician praised the principle
of honoring Skanderbeg in the capital, saying it “can bring
only positive messages to anyone in Macedonia, because the
figure of Skanderbeg reflects the common code of modern
Albanian identity drawing on both Christian and Muslim
elements.”

Menduh Tachi and other members of his Democratic Party of
Albanians, however, did not come to the celebration. Tachi,
the party's vice president, called Mexhiti's "vow
fulfilled" gesture “pathetic, a political mistake,” and
accused the BDI of trying to hijack the monument's
popularity.

The monument was conceived and built in a way that "aroused
suspicions not only among [ethnic] Macedonians, and divided
the Albanians themselves," he said.

It is not just a statue that divides the two parties. Since
Ahmeti's organization switched from fighting for territory
to fighting for votes, it and the Democratic Party of
Albanians have wrestled for the Albanian minority's votes.
The BDI won the highest number of Albanian votes in the
2002 parliamentary elections and joined the coalition
government, displacing its rival. At the next election, in
2006, Ahmeti's party again won the Albanian vote, but the
winning ethnic Macedonian parties broke precedent by
inviting the second-place Democratic Party of Albanians
into a more conservative government headed by Gruevski.

Mexhiti and several other mayors of Albanian municipalities
are BDI members.

The historical Skanderbeg's ability to get enemies to unite
against a greater foe was something the statue's backers
probably wished they possessed as the project went from
initial proposal to international competition (won by
Tirana sculptor Tomo Tomai) to the complex approval process
at Skopje City Hall.

The hero was among those put on a list of candidates for
new monuments by Skopje officials in 2004. But when the
Chair town hall put forward its proposal, the state
cultural heritage office turned it down for violating
several cultural heritage laws, and Skopje officials
objected that the Albanian-majority district failed to
consult its Slav residents.

Finally, just days before its unveiling, the Skopje city
council put its stamp of approval on the monument, despite
Mayor Trifun Kostovski’s displeasure with the affair.
Official approval was given "so as not to harm interethnic
relations" and in the face of the "disrespect and ignorance
shown by the Chair mayor," State Cultural Heritage
Protection Office director Pasko Kuzman said.


ALEXANDER THE SECOND

Political infighting aside, Kastrioti is no less honored
today than over the past 600 years, by Albanians of all
religious or regional affiliations and by the other peoples
of the western Balkans. It's a classic underdog story: the
out-of-nowhere leader who stitched the patchwork of
Albanian feudal principalities into a force capable of
resisting the most fearsome military machine of the era.

Kastrioti grew to manhood at a time when Europe looked on
aghast as an obscure Turkish tribe burst from its Anatolian
heartland to annex great stretches of land both in the east
and in the west, all the way to the Adriatic. By 1430 the
Ottomans had conquered Albania, only to be pushed back in
the 1440s when Kastrioti rallied the feudal lords to fight
back. Kastrioti held back the empire for a quarter of a
century at the head of forces rarely exceeding 20,000 men.
In 1450 he defeated an army led by Sultan Murad II and
twice held off the army of Murad's son, Mehmed II,
conqueror of Constantinople. Before turning against the
Turks, Kastrioti had been a loyal commander of Ottoman
forces. Perhaps by Sultan Murad himself in admiration of
his tactical genius, he was granted the title Iskender Bey
(Lord Alexander) – soon corrupted into the familiar
Skanderbeg.

Skanderbeg's successes soon caught the eye of Venice,
Naples, and the Papal states, wealthy territories who
themselves felt threatened by the growing Ottoman power
across the Adriatic. The Albanian warrior played his hand
with a good deal of political and diplomatic skill in his
dealings with the three Italian states. Hoping to
strengthen and expand the last Christian bridgehead in the
Balkans, they provided Skanderbeg with money, supplies, and
occasionally with troops, and flatteringly titled him
Athleta Christi, or Champion of Christ.

But Albanian resistance collapsed after Skanderbeg’s
natural death in 1468, and the Ottomans had reoccupied the
country by 1506. Albania remained an Ottoman possession
until 1912, the last Balkan territory to gain independence
from the faltering empire.

ROOTS IN DISPUTE

Skanderbeg’s name has been invoked throughout Albanian
history to inspire unity and the sense of a common
identity. A number of scholars at an international
symposium last year, however, stressed the importance of
avoiding anachronistic notions of nationality or statehood
when speaking of medieval Albania or Macedonia.

The expert guests at the event held under the auspices of
the Macedonian Academy of Sciences and Arts largely
confirmed the legend of Skanderbeg as brilliant commander
and inspiring leader. His leadership was in no way an
all-Albanian affair, several Macedonian researchers argued.
Slavs were very probably present in Skanderbeg's forces,
Dragan Gjorgiev said, and his colleague Boban Petrovski
suggested that the hero's mother was the daughter of a Slav
noble from the present-day Tetovo area.

But these arguments paled in comparison to the revelations
by Petar Popovski, whose book Georgija Kastriot – Iskender
appeared late in 2006, selling surprisingly well
considering its 1,200-page bulk and 15 euro price tag.


Popovski holds a doctorate in history but is not an
academic. He claimed the mainstream scholars barred his
work from being presented at the symposium. His book
develops the argument that Kastrioti, or Kastriot, was born
and lived in a Slavic setting. His correspondence was
carried out in Slavic and his nobles bore Slavic names.
Most controversially, Popovski claims the non-Slavic
Albanians were not even present on the territory of the
modern state during Kastrioti's time.

“The census carried out by the Ottomans in 1583 proves
there was no settled 'Albanian' population there,” Popovski
said earlier this year while promoting his book.

Even the warrior's nickname is a historical mistake,
Popovski says. Rejecting the story of the Ottoman knight
granted the title of bey, Popovski claims Kastrioti,
although known as Iskender, was never an Ottoman vassal at
all.

Although Popovski's claims have caught the book-buying
public's attention, the academic community is not treating
his work as serious scholarship.

Popovski is engaging in “manipulation of people’s
emotions,” said the director of the Institute of National
History, Todor Chepreganov. The president of the Macedonian
Academy of Sciences and Arts, Cvetan Grozdanov, dismissed
Popovski's research as “a radical Macedonian version
inconsistent with reality.”

But philosopher Ferid Muhic wrote in one of his popular
newspaper columns in support of Popovski's claim for
Kastrioti's birth and upbringing among Slavs, and similar
attitudes are echoed by characters in Mihajlovski's
stories.

"I found out something – Skanderbeg actually had the same
name as you," the main character in the story "Spitting
Out" tells his nephew. "Iskender! Meaning Alexander! His
name was Georgija Kastriot and he was Orthodox, not Muslim
as some say."

The standard version of Skanderbeg's ethnic affiliation may
not take note of these voices, but the notion of the hero
as a son of the Slavs is growing in popularity among
Macedonia's Slavic majority. There is even a proposal to
build another monument to "Iskender" in the all-Slavic town
of Prilep, territory that Kastrioti never ruled.

Novi Pazar
Commanding Moderator
Posts: 7376
(8/20/07 1:48 am)
Reply

Re: Suart
All l can say is that his a great man!. Regarding his ethnic origins, there is many conflicting arguments, regardless, his a man who was favored by the peoples of the Balkans.

The only way to make sure people you agree with can speak is to support the rights of people you don't agree with

Dijedon
Senior Moderator
Posts: 10078
(8/23/07 1:58 am)
Reply

Re: Suart
There's no confusion as to what concerns the ethnic identity of Scanderbeg; only the wishful thinking of a few, who base their arguments on weak details, say there is 'confusion'. If anything, Scanderbeg's own words are sufficient to conclude how he saw himself, ethnically speaking. After Scanderbeg scored his famous victory in Ujebardha 1457, a peace treaty was signed with the Ottomans that temporarely halted the war. In 1461, Scanderbeg went to Italy to aid Ferdinand, the lord of Naples, who was facing difficulties in his war against Prince Giovanni Antonio of Taranto. In an offensive letter, Prince Antonio wrote following;

Quote:
You will find other men who all support your proud appearance (?) and no one will avoid your face. Our Italian soldiers will challenge you very well and have no fear of the Albanese. We already know your generation and respect the Albanese like sheep, and it is an embarrassment to have such cowardly people for enemies; (neÕ?) would you have embarked on such a business if you had stayed to dwell in your house.


Scanderbeg, rather angry with the insults in Antonio's letter, sent a reply. In this reply, his own national consciousness is reflected;

Quote:
Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. My elders were from Epirus, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies


The Tarantinian prince insults the Albanians. Scanderbeg responds that he has thus scorned what he calls 'our people', that he has offended 'us', leading us to the conclusion that he considered himself a mere Albanian. Epirotian in this respect is nothing but a synonym for Albanian. Likewise, the Slavs north of Albania, in particular Montenegro & Croatia, were called Illyrians. This has more to do with old names lingering on side by side with new terms, leading thus to a slight confusion. Which in turn led Scanderbeg and others to believe that we Albanians, are descendants of the ancient Epirotes. Which we probably are to an extent.

Scanderbeg continues;

Quote:
If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?


What's important to note here is that Scanderbeg doesn't call himself a Macedonian. He says that if one considers Albania as a part of Macedonia, it would seem reasonable to assume that Alexander the Great had recruited Albanians (Illyrians) for his campaigns in Asia. Thus, he is clearly identifying himself with the Albanian ethnos. He says 'our ancestors' were nobles who went to India ... and then continues to say that "from those men come these who you call sheep". Who did he call sheep? The ALBANESE !!!

Now unless the medieval Bulgarians of what is now FYROM were a bunch of albinos, I am pretty sure this term Albanese used by Scani himself is a the Italian term for Albanians, read, not Macedonian Slavs, but ALBANIANS !!!

Now, you can read all the books you want written by pseudo-historians. Truth is that history books/historiography where it counts recognize Scanderbeg as an Albanian hero. And furthermore, we have Scanderbeg's own words testifying for what we have said all along.

P:s Scanderbeg was indeed a great man. I appreciate that you admire our national hero Novi. I feel flattered. Nice that you do not let your hatred for the Albanians hinder you from recognizing what a grande persona he was.

PPs: Scanderbeg and his 'sheep' whooped Antonio's butt severely. Being that the Albanian cavalry was light and the Italian heavy, the former was more mobile and fast, enhancing thus an attack on the Italian flanks. Antonio was defeated ... Ferdinand secured.

___________________

Vėllezėr Shqipėtarė,
tė prekim urtėsinė,
tė zėm udhėn e mbarė,
tė ngjallim Shqipėrinė.

Shqipėria ka qenė
dhe do tė jetė,
po sot nė ditėt tona
tė metė tė mos ketė.

E ka nderuar Zoti
gjithėnjė Shqipėrinė
ish fort mirė qėmoti,
do bėhet dhe taninė.


Naim Frashėri

Edited by: Dijedon at: 8/23/07 2:00 am
beach police 
Senior Moderator
Posts: 2427
(8/24/07 4:43 am)
Reply

Re: Suart
He was part Serb. His mother was Voisava and that is not an Albanian name.

Dijedon
Senior Moderator
Posts: 10082
(8/24/07 12:30 pm)
Reply

Re: Suart
Quote:
He was part Serb. His mother was Voisava and that is not an Albanian name.


How do you know he was part Serb? Because his mother's name was Slav? Based on that, he might just as well be part Bulgarian. Afterall, Voisava was from the Polog Valley which is in modern Macedonia. Chances are bigger he was partially Bulgarian. But in the end, anthroponyms are not decisive indicators of one's ethnic affiliation -- this is especially valid when we speak of the Middle Age. I mean, is a Serb suddenly Jewish if his name is Nemanja? No.

Most of the nobility was ethnically mixed. Your own Dusan was Bulgarian from his mother's side, and Karadjordje was a descendant of Albanian highlanders of Kelmend. So, claiming heroes on that basis is rather ridiculous ... what matters was their consciousness. You saw Scanderbeg's above. All other things are speculations, nothing else.

___________________

Vėllezėr Shqipėtarė,
tė prekim urtėsinė,
tė zėm udhėn e mbarė,
tė ngjallim Shqipėrinė.

Shqipėria ka qenė
dhe do tė jetė,
po sot nė ditėt tona
tė metė tė mos ketė.

E ka nderuar Zoti
gjithėnjė Shqipėrinė
ish fort mirė qėmoti,
do bėhet dhe taninė.


Naim Frashėri

AlbanianTriology
Amicus
Posts: 2674
(8/25/07 9:35 am)
Reply

Re: Suart
Quote:
He was part Serb. His mother was Voisava


Voisave is orthodox name, his mother was from triballi tribes that were albanians lived in West Macedonia ;)

l

********************************

Edited by: AlbanianTriology at: 8/25/07 9:36 am
Kubrat
Moderator
Posts: 3680
(9/4/07 12:32 am)
Reply

Re: Suart
his mother was Bulgarian, we've posted the link many times before, he's your hero, we don't claim that, we just claim he was a half Bulgarian.



yea...i tapped that

Magedon 
Moderator
Posts: 960
(2/3/08 10:14 am)
Reply

Re: Suart


HE WAS A SLAVIC ORTODOX PRINCE WHO FIGHETED OTTOMANS AND THEIR DOGS THE SHIPTARS!!!!

HIs family names are - Voislava,Jovan,Ivan,Gjorgji,Marko and so on. Now that sound like real 'albanian' names.

By the way did you knew that Albania was always part of Macedonia untill the powers gave you your state???Just ask those slavic toponims all over albania.

So he was right when he said our noble ancestors fought with Alexander cuz he himself was a MIYAK Macedonian - why would then the turks name a Macedonian/Slavic prince a 'Secon Alexander"???That was his nikname - ISKENDER.Not any skender and much lesser any beg - a known islamic title.

There are many contemporary docs confirming this - just google up a bit - youll find your answer.

and by the way, i enjoyed watching the stupid muslim shkons revering a statue of a MACEDONIAN/MIYAK/SLAVIC/ORTODOX PRINCE!!!!

WAKE UP PPL, WAKE UP!!!!!!!!

-----------------
"Being shocked and increasingly concerned, I struck the village mayor when I heard him speak Bulgarian, which he wishes to call Macedonian, and I recommended that in the future he should always and everywhere speak only Greek, and that he should recommend that his villagers do the same." Greek Infantry Lieutenant Dim. Kamburas, Armensko, January 25, 1925.

---------

"...I asked him what language they spoke, and my Greek interpreter carelessly rendered the answer Bulgare. The man himself had said Makedonski. I drew attention to this word and the witness explained that he did not consider the rural dialect used in Macedonia the same as Bulgarian, and refused to call it by that name. It was Macedonian, a word to which he gave the Slav form of Makedonski, but which I was to hear farther north in the Greek form of Makedonike". Allen Upward, The East End of Europe. London, 1908, pp. 204-205.



Magedon 
Moderator
Posts: 963
(2/3/08 11:09 am)
Reply

Re: Suart
Here is some interesting link i bet the Shkons wont like it - its albania vs caucasus albania and the enormous similarities.Mind you there are brought just FEW of the enormous number of them


www.geocities.com/Capitol...onyms.html

These are just a few, JUST A FEW - of the many identically named towns, cities and villages in Albania and the Caucasus and these examples offer stunning support for the Caucasian origins of the proto-Shiptars, the purest descendants of whom live in Toskia - where most of the Albanian toponyms originate. The Caucasus is littered with place names which can also be found in pure form and minor variation all across Albania. The sheer volume of these identical toponyms suggests that the relationship of Albanians to the Caucasus is not only not a coincidence - but very strong, indeed.

-----------------
"Being shocked and increasingly concerned, I struck the village mayor when I heard him speak Bulgarian, which he wishes to call Macedonian, and I recommended that in the future he should always and everywhere speak only Greek, and that he should recommend that his villagers do the same." Greek Infantry Lieutenant Dim. Kamburas, Armensko, January 25, 1925.

---------

"...I asked him what language they spoke, and my Greek interpreter carelessly rendered the answer Bulgare. The man himself had said Makedonski. I drew attention to this word and the witness explained that he did not consider the rural dialect used in Macedonia the same as Bulgarian, and refused to call it by that name. It was Macedonian, a word to which he gave the Slav form of Makedonski, but which I was to hear farther north in the Greek form of Makedonike". Allen Upward, The East End of Europe. London, 1908, pp. 204-205.



Edited by: Magedon  at: 2/3/08 11:14 am
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