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UnitedBalkans
Amicus
Posts: 296
(3/8/06 4:17 am)
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Napoleon Bonaparte (Antirevolution/Prorevolution?)
Well the topic title says it itself. Do you guys think Napoleon Bonaparte was a man that supported the phisolophical views of the Revolution or was he against them using them to his own advantage, or a bit of both? Explain to me your answers and some examples of what you think he was..

My opinion on the matter:

Napoleon implemented many important views and actions for the citizens of France and the citizens of Europe, but his inspiration on promoting the French Revolution were against it and leaned more towards his own benefits.

One of the ways Napoleon rewarded service to the Republic was by giving them the Legion of Honor which is still to this day being rewarded to worthy French citizens. This did not promote the ideas inspired by the French Revolution. First of all, the award could only be given to those who had achieved something in both civil and military achievements. This is not really against of pro revolution but when it comes to the arguments it is against because of the way Napoleon had set it up. Like it was said, this was given to those that had some military achievements and Napoleon did this kind of awards to benefit himself rather then the Revolution. The award was given to 30 000 and could be given money wise as well. Napoleon did this towards his benefits because he wanted the citizens of France to trust his ambitions and his control over them. This kind of event only made French citizens fall into the trap of being controlled by Napoleon who could use this to his advantage at any time, and he did. During the France-Russian war, where Napoleon amassed a total of 600 000 soldiers, many died on the way to Moscow where they had the confrontation with the Russians. When the war was done, the soldiers were on their way home with only 1000 men. With events like the Legion of Honor, these men would not have fought with Napoleon until death and still regard him to their highest standards.

Britain’s action’s on blockading the whole northwestern Europe from France to reduce trade export and increase export for Britain was harsh on France lands. Napoleon should not have demanded closure of all European ports to British trade. This event, called the Continental System, was not a pro-revolutionary event as it showed Napoleon had more ambition to conquer England through the lands that he already conquered rather then helping the lands he conquered to revolutionize. Napoleon should not have done such a move because it showed the other countries under Napoleons control that Napoleon did not care about them and they started to respond to this kind of threats. For example; France invaded Spain in 1808 and the European countries under Napoleons control started to violate the Continental System Napoleon had put forth. They started to violate it because, not only was England problems, such as unemployment in towns like Manchester becoming serious, but also because the countries under Napoleons rule were also greatly effected by the ban on trade. This kind of law set forth by Napoleon hit him hard in 1810 when Russia decided not to participate in the Constitutional System which made the overall performance of the system ineffective. This kind of behavior by Napoleon and his anti-revolution campaign got him resented by most of the citizens of Europe, who were getting tired of being controlled by a dictator that only thought about himself.

Now ofcourse Napoloen did many good things for the French Citizens at the beginning like setting forth the Bank of France or healing the wounds with the clergy ( Concordat) or even the tax reforms he put forth to help the French economy paying off the debt but I think that he only did all this so he could get support of the French people so when the bigger picture came to view, such as the continues wars France was into, he could use the trust worthy and loyalty of the men that he once rewarded with things such as the Legion of honor. But we can see that at the end of Napoleons campaign the citizens of Europe were not looking at Napoleon on a good eye since he was a dictator and controlling the countries at his will rather then spreading pro revolution ideas for the governments. One of the bad moves, i think, Napoleon made was when he set up the Continental system but how could Napoleon the great not see Russia betraying France which would make the process ineffective..but everyone makes mistakes and Napoleon got really careless at the end of his careers. Napoleons views affected France and French occupied lands to an extent where the citizens of Europe were starting to see through the leader they once loved and what they saw was absolutism and the understanding that he was an anti-revolutionist that only wanted to benefit for himself

During the revolution the government of France had made sure to generate a fissure against the Catholic Church by seizing its lands and then making the priests swear an oath to the state rather then the pope. This kind of event was pro revolution because it set a right path for a more fair government which would include all of the estates. However, Napoleon tried to heal this breach that had first been pro-revolution. This kind of event, called the Concordat, showed the first sign that Napoleon might not be for the Revolution in the first place as he was trying to get the old ways back by reopening Churches through out France and recognizing it as the “religion of the majority of Frenchman”. He signed the agreement with the Pope, who could also refuse candidates of bishops that were set forth by the government. This shows to me that Napoleon was trying to give some of the power back to the church, like in the old days but also towards his own benefits of giving peasants confidence that they would retain their property that the church once owned. This only gave more assurance to the people of France whom by now were starting to love Napoleon.

Edited by: AAdmin  at: 3/10/06 7:01 pm
AAdmin 
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Posts: 4559
(3/10/06 6:56 pm)
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Re: Napoleon Bonaparte

responces from other forums on the same thread.
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Albanesehoney
Membrum
Posts: 238
(3/8/06 6:15 pm)
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Other than the forces of Enlightenment of that era, France's treasury was bankrupted by 1789 because by 1778 the French aristocracy (Lafayette and several others) had financed the American Revolution by squeezing an English Admiral Rodney through a game of poker, in which Lord Sandwhich also played.

The deal was that the French treasury would pay off this Englishman's debts and be forgiven his exile from England and be allowed to take command of the British fleet and had been instructed to rendezvous with Brit. Gen Cornwallis during the battle at Yorktown. The British were dug in and waiting for resupply and reinforcements by the British fleet.

What Adm. Rodney did was made a detour to the Isl. of St. Eustatius and punish this tiny isle. because it had been the port where slaves, guns and gin smuggling had occured between the colonies and the rest of the world. It was a Dutch protectorate and an open trading post. Rodney sailed in, looted everything he could from this isle. and burned the rest of this isle.

Needless to say, Cornwallis lost at Yorktown, the tide of the war turned in the American's favor, Rodney made a Bee-line to France, never to be heard of again.

France paid over 80 mil to cover Rodney's gambling losses. This basically cost Louis XVl's life, and his aristocratic class and kingdom. As for Napoleon, he too, incorporated much of the ideals of the Englightenment era, expressed by Robespierre, Voltaire, Newton, Kant, Weber(later) and several other scholars. And, he did much of it with the idea of what kind of legacy he'd leave behind him. (Considering he kept a copy of Alexander the Great's bio and the Illiad with him in all his campaigns.)

I would say yes, Napoleon did quite a bit of great for the nation of France, considering the losses she suffered. But, the greatest of his successes was the exploration of the ancient civilizations of Egypt and the Middle East. And, Champollion's translation of the 196 B.C. writings on the Rosetta Stone.

As for the relations between the Avignon (then, Rome-Constantinople-Jerusalem) Popes and the 'civil' authority of the 'nobility', these strained relations occured from the beginning. Right after Constantine declared Christianity the religion of his empire in the 4th century a.d.

Both Merovingian nobles/kings and the church competed for power and ultimately, in France, the civil authority won, with an agreement between them. Later, this strain culminated in 950a.d. with the murder of the last Merovingian King Dagobert, and the beginning of a cooperative equal relationship between the Carolingian line of French Kings and the Church.

Yes, there was some positive aspects to Napoleon's legacy but there were also some really negative ones: Imperialism, the wars in Algeria, Vietnam, Congo, Rwanda, Morroco/Sub-Saharan, their legacy in Lebanon and Syria-which has its remnants in todays politics of the Middle East. What can I say? All his ventures came with a price which was paid with the blood of the French and many of the victims of their wars,

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AAdmin 
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(3/10/06 6:57 pm)
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Re: Napoleon Bonaparte
responces from other forums on the same thread.
^^^^^^^^^

SULIOT
Amicus
Posts: 385
(3/8/06 8:03 pm)
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I agree with marx when he called him a traitor to the revolution...using it to gain approval and legitimacy is one thing..but dying and fighting for it is another...and i'd say he did more of the former than the latter. he was just a douche..a great stretegic genious..but a douche nonetheless...Vive La Revolution!

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AAdmin 
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(3/10/06 6:59 pm)
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Re: Napoleon Bonaparte
responces from other forums on the same thread.
^^^^^^^^^

secretary of videogames
Instigator!
Posts: 903
(3/8/06 7:54 am)
Re: NAPOLEON BONAPARTE- ANtiRevolution/Prorevolution
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he implented alot of need reforms at the expense of french democracy. this lead to the Napoleans, II through V. Ambition lead to the fall of the republic. Ultimently his goods outway his bads. he brougt pride and wealth to france althought ultimently several battles of greed would cost them it all. its a real tough call on a real enigma.

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