londonergb Registered User
Posts: 17
(10/1/07 8:59 pm)
On the Greek position about Macedonia?
Hello again, For me it is quiite unexpected to see the Greeks so eagerly asserting the Bulgarian character of the Macedonian slavs.were they not,in the not so distant past altogether with their Serb allies trying to do
what the Macedonians are now perpetuating themselves
-a complete denial of being Bulgarians?
shouldnt they be happy instead-they have the Macedonians indeed trying to claim a closer link to them than with us/I know that the Macs support the theory of the non-helenic character of the ancient Macedonians but even that being the case it is still closer to the greeks than to us .../
Shouldnt the greeks see this as an opportunity to bring their little and poor northern neighbour into their orbit and possibly assimilate them instead of getting affraid
of eventual teritorial claim on them and consequently utterly deniyng the Macedonian claim of Alexander's children identity?
Edited by: londonergb at: 10/1/07 9:02 pm
londonergb Registered User
Posts: 18
(10/1/07 9:11 pm)
Re: On the Greek position about Macedonia?
I mean I understand the others countries' stand- The Serbs being too preoccupied with their own problems having lost now true serbs to their neigbours...The albanians just waiting untill their stronger demografic increase does the job "naturally" in their favour...the turks supporting the Macedonian position thus trying to use it as a "Trojan horse" amidst the quarelling balkaniks...But wyhy the Greek position is such?Dont they see the opportunity?
Quote:For me it is quiite unexpected to see the Greeks so eagerly asserting the Bulgarian character of the Macedonian slavs.were they not,in the not so distant past altogether with their Serb allies trying to do
what the Macedonians are now perpetuating themselves
-a complete denial of being Bulgarians?
You should make a distinction between the policies of a state and the opinions of people. The normal Greek people know that the Macedonians are Bulgarians. Some of the Greeks say that the Macedonians are Greeks, who were forced to learn Bulgarian. Those Greeks know that they are lying, they just like to lie
The policies of the Greek state are something different, there were many policies throughout the years. The policies of the Bulgarian state were also different, for example between 1945 and 1948 the Bulgarian state (which was ruled from Moscow) adopted the idea that the Macedonians are separate nation and was preparing to give Pirin Macedonia to Yugoslavia. The breakup of the relations between Tito and Stalin saved Pirin Macedonia.
So you can't say "the Greeks want this... ; the Greeks claim this..." because there are many kinds of Greeks, just like there are many kinds of Bulgarians.
londonergb Registered User
Posts: 19
(10/1/07 9:28 pm)
Re: On the Greek position about Macedonia?
//The policies of the Bulgarian state were also different, for example between 1945 and 1948 the Bulgarian state (which was ruled from Moscow) adopted the idea that the Macedonians are separate nation ...//
I think that Gueorguy Dimitrov's idea was quite an original one-creating few pseudo-nations within bulgaria /Shop,Dobrudjan and Thracian altogether with the already consieved Macedonian / then incorporating this conglomerate into Tito's Yugoslavia and thus uniting the Bulgarian people into a Balkanik slav union with on top of that more voices into the eventual federal governement coming from 5 Bulgarian nations instead of only oneEdited by: londonergb at: 10/1/07 9:29 pm
RuseBG Senior Moderator
Posts: 9710
(10/1/07 9:31 pm)
Re: On the Greek position about Macedonia?
From what I've read, seen and heard, most Greeks consider Macedonians as Bulgarians. Some insults going alongside that but not something that can make you lose your sleep.
And Georgi Dimitrov is one of the most pathetic figures in our history - murderer and traitor.
londonergb Registered User
Posts: 20
(10/1/07 9:35 pm)
Re: On the Greek position about Macedonia?
//and was preparing to give Pirin Macedonia to Yugoslavia. //
-This only to be an example to be followed by Greece... Bulgaria in the new Bulgaro-Yugoslavia would have been the ultimate winner...
....the chance to save the Maces from brainwashing in the 1940-50 was immensely bigger than now....
RuseBG Senior Moderator
Posts: 9712
(10/1/07 9:40 pm)
Re: On the Greek position about Macedonia?
Quote:Bulgaria in the new Bulgaro-Yugoslavia would have been the ultimate winner
It wouldn't have been named Bulgaro-Yugoslavia but just Yugoslavia. Second, the capital was supposed to be Belgrade. And third, why do you think losing your independance as a state (slightly controvercial that, in regard to our relations with the USSR) was going to be a better option?
londonergb Registered User
Posts: 21
(10/1/07 9:48 pm)
Re: On the Greek position about Macedonia?
Well I mean why not just annexing FYROM and justifying this in front of their NATO allies with the logic -"well You see they said themselves that they are our fellows and brothers" The rest of the world is aware of the anciend Macedonian's belonging to the Hellenic world...so what would be the problem?I know You will probably say;"We would have not allowed this!!"But before we became members of EU and NATO
would we have the gutts really?
londonergb Registered User
Posts: 22
(10/1/07 9:53 pm)
Re: On the Greek position about Macedonia?
//It wouldn't have been named Bulgaro-Yugoslavia but just Yugoslavia. Second, the capital was supposed to be Belgrade. And third, why do you think losing your independance as a state (slightly controvercial that, in regard to our relations with the USSR) was going to be a better option? //
We would simply be united with Macedonia-1.
Yugoslavia was better economically than the Warsaw pact countries-2...
Even with Belgrade as capital postwar Yugoslavia was miles away from the serb dominated Yugoslav kingdom from before the war...left alone pure demografy is on our side-we are a bigger people than the serbs...
RuseBG Senior Moderator
Posts: 9716
(10/1/07 10:06 pm)
Re: On the Greek position about Macedonia?
And if you finally add how Yugoslavia separated...
londonergb Registered User
Posts: 23
(10/1/07 10:45 pm)
Re: On the Greek position about Macedonia?
We are going off topic again
Consider our case with the Chouvashis and tatars from Kazan...Imagine the Russians left them declare their republic Bulgarian ...would we have done like the Greeks?Instead of saying "Go away You mongoloid muslims we accepted them with open arms and sent jurnalists and so on to dig stuff out...We were happy with such claim...despite the fact that they dont seem much of our relatives do they?
Quote:We were happy with such claim...despite the fact that they dont seem much of our relatives do they?
I don't think we have that strong connection with above mentionned. We should consider ourselves mostly domestic ppl of Moesia and Thrace, Heamus and Rodopa.
Btw, you're welcome to Illyria forums (if you never been here before).
londonergb Registered User
Posts: 24
(10/1/07 11:51 pm)
Re: On the Greek position about Macedonia?
That was exactly my point! We still felt curious and excited of someone claiming a connection with us in contrast with the greek reaction to the Macedonian claim...
Thanks for the welcome btw I was just reading the inter-moderator quarrel in the" immigration to Britain" toppic
londonergb Registered User
Posts: 25
(10/2/07 12:32 am)
Re: On the Greek position about Macedonia?
I realise I should ask this question in the Greek forum really and I will do it...Still it is a good thing that such an unexpected ally for us comes in the face of Greece...Now we are two countries ,and the better two in the region! supporting the same cause-BULGARIAN ORIGIN OF THE MACEDONIAN SLAVS!
I believe the albanians are also on this opinionThe russian sources are still not updated-maybe because we are too irrelevant to them at this stage...Who is left then?...
I will tell You who- Few half-blind leading a million and a few hundred thousand blinded through wonderland!!!But unlike the Samuils soldiers there is a chance for their grand-grand sons to reopen their eyes for the truth!
Amen
londonergb Registered User
Posts: 26
(10/2/07 12:40 am)
Re: On the Greek position about Macedonia?
//I don't think we have that strong connection with above mentionned. We should consider ourselves mostly domestic ppl of Moesia and Thrace, Heamus and Rodopa.//
...and?!!!!!!!!!!!Didnt you miss something?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote:That was exactly my point! We still felt curious and excited of someone claiming a connection with us in contrast with the greek reaction to the Macedonian claim
And still.. we have no direct connection with any bulgars or chuvash etc.. The name of our country misleading us mostly. That unfortunately has the opposite effect - denying our real ancestry..
Quote:...and?!!!!!!!!!!!Didnt you miss something?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Probably Orbelus or Pirin and Rila..
RuseBG Senior Moderator
Posts: 9718
(10/2/07 10:20 am)
Re: On the Greek position about Macedonia?
Londonergb, to make things clearer for you, I'll let you know that Rhezus, unlike the rest of us, claims that we are mainly Thracians with a very little Bulgar blood.
I am tired of that dispute but I will never agree with his view on Macedonians, because we are the same people, and his position sounds like a national treason. Exactly like the communists but with the Thracian implication that makes the difference according to him.
Quote:I think that Gueorguy Dimitrov's idea was quite an original one-creating few pseudo-nations within bulgaria /Shop,Dobrudjan and Thracian altogether with the already consieved Macedonian
This was not his idea, it was an idea of the Communistic International ("Komintern"). He was only a puppet.
If Bulgaria was part of Yugoslavia, the Bulgarians would have also been brainwashed that a Macedonian nation exists. Our history books would have contained the same crap like the Macedonian. This means that after the breakup of Yugoslavia only the Greeks and the Albanians would have remembered that the Macedonians were previously Bulgarians.
Quote:Londonergb, to make things clearer for you, I'll let you know that Rhezus, unlike the rest of us, claims that we are mainly Thracians with a very little Bulgar blood.
And who are you?!.. Probably the "specialist" in finding several new theories about the origin of steppe bulgars (which was the last one - iranians?!). They actually are minority here in our country - local ppl, have been living here for thousands of years before the arrival of 200.000 riding bulgars. Shall we also explain about the calendar proto-bulgars used - before gazing the skies of Thrace?.. All the names written in that calendar with Turkic words.. They can not be our real ancestors, or...?!
Edited by: Rhezus at: 10/2/07 1:32 pm
RuseBG Senior Moderator
Posts: 9729
(10/2/07 2:35 pm)
Re: On the Greek position about Macedonia?
Calm down, Rhezus. I was just explaining the guy where everyone stands and I don't think I got you wrong.
Quote:before the arrival of 200.000 riding bulgars.
We have a progress. Just months ago there were 10 000 Bulgars. Good.
yea...i tapped that 
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