The Grand Poobah
Posts: 174
(6/24/05 11:40 am) Reply
Professor Trelawney's REAL Trance from PoA
So...I'm putting this in the GoF forum because of the discussion the three have in Ron's room after the World Cup about it.
Who do you suppose was using Sybill as the medium for that trance? Who actually gave her that message?
RoP JoAnn Thinking too much
about Transfiguration
Posts: 40
(6/24/05 2:40 pm) Reply
Re: Professor Trelawney's REAL Trance from PoA
"The powers that be"
"Real" prophecies have to come from someone who knows the future. At the moment, we haven't been shown that wizards can go forward in time, only back. So even wizards would not accurately know the future.
Also, "the powers that be" have a really twisted sense of humor, because they usually give prophecies in vague language that causes people to act in ways they normally wouldn't, and often cause the prophecized event to occur.
So if everyone knew the prophecy and believed that Harry was the only one who could destroy Voldie, nobody would ever even try to stop him.
So I have this question about Neville. If he finds out about the prophecy, but doesn't come to the conclusion that events point to Harry being the One, would he be so bold as to confront Voldie? Would he possibly believe he was the One?
ejeana Registered Member
Posts: 86
(6/27/05 6:29 pm) Reply
Re: Professor Trelawney's REAL Trance from PoA
hmmm, I don't see Neville as being that brave. Dumbledore does praise him in the first book for standing up to his friends, but still, I think that's a different sort of bravery than standing up to someone who could inflict a great deal of physical pain on one. However, one of Harry's big motivators in standing up to Voldemort is that V. killed his parents. Neville has a similar motivation, so perhaps he could draw on that to bolster his bravery.
This is kind of an early forshadowing of the similarities between the two...I think it's very interesting that in the third book, when Harry gets on the bus after leaving the Dursley's, he gives his name as Neville Longbottom, not wanting to reveal his true identity.
The Grand Poobah
Posts: 174
(6/28/05 3:17 pm) Reply
Re: Professor Trelawney's REAL Trance from PoA
Quote:he gives his name as Neville Longbottom, not wanting to reveal his true identity.
Yes. Very interesting.
I think, especially since there was no consequence in PoA for that action...that it will come back to haunt Harry before the end. I remember sucking in my breath when I read that for the 2nd time through and thinking, "Ooh, Harry, that's going to come back and bite you."
I bet it has some significance.
ejeana Registered Member
Posts: 86
(6/29/05 11:51 am) Reply
Re: Professor Trelawney's REAL Trance from PoA
I was just thinking about Dumbledore's numeric rating of acts of bravery in the first book--Harry gets 60 (if I remember right) for actually taking Voldemort out (for the time being, anyway), Ron and Hermione each get 50 for helping, and Neville gets ten for standing up to them. I know that he's pleased with himself, but I'm surpised no one in Slytherin protested. Afterall, Neville didn't do anything to actually *help* the cause, in fact, had he been effective, he could have botched the whole thing. And that ten points is what put Gryffindor over for the house cup. So I guess it just seems like while what he did took nerve, it almost seems patronizing that he recieved points for it. I can't think of any other examples where people get points for overcoming personal weaknesses that in no way benefit the house or school, at least in any immediately recongnizable way. Points are given for correct answers in class, but that benefits the learning environment of the class as a whole.
I would love to see Neville do something truly amazing. That would rock. Surely he must want to; his parents were aurors, after all.
RoP JoAnn Thinking too much
about Transfiguration
Posts: 42
(7/1/05 2:07 pm) Reply
Points for passing a watering can?
Doesn't Harry get points for passing a watering can in OotP?
In that case, the teacher is cheering his telling of his story to the Press (something that certainly would take personal courage, doesn't show that he'd studied especially hard, etc. etc.) Neville's points are really very similar.
The whole points thing becomes rather ridiculous when we find that Prefects can take points and Draco is a Prefect. Obviously the whole house competiton can be skewed by biased teachers and students. It is not a fair playing field at all!
I think when Dumbledore says a house has won the Cup, that house has won the Cup, regardless of what anyone else has done to the point totals over the course of the year. I think that is the real message at the end of PS/SS.
ejeana Registered Member
Posts: 89
(7/14/05 8:58 am) Reply
Re: Points for passing a watering can?
true about the points thing. That's definitely a lot of power for student prefects. Using it with impartiality would be difficult for any kid, let alone someone like Draco.
I just re-read the section with Trelawney's trance not too long ago, and was thinking that it's a rather strange gift/talent because it's pretty much useless without someone there to witness it, not to mention someone making sense of it. In fact, Trelawney herself doesn't even realize she had given a prophecy. Not that this is an exact parallel, but it reminds me of the gift of tongues in the Bible, which also needs someone around to interpret it.
I wonder if it was coincidence that Harry happened to be arouond to hear the prophecy, or if the "powers that be" also arrange for an appropriate "hearer" to be present.
The Grand Poobah
Posts: 183
(7/14/05 9:39 am) Reply
Re: Points for passing a watering can?
Quote:the "powers that be" also arrange for an appropriate "hearer" to be present.
I think you've really hit it dead-on there. I think that's the issue.
"The two most abundant things on the planet are hydrogen and stupidity."
~Harlan Ellison
RoP JoAnn Thinking too much
about Transfiguration
Posts: 47
(7/14/05 1:27 pm) Reply
Exactly
Prophecy only works when the correct person hears it. Imagine Voldie hearing Trw's first prophecy instead of DD?
I always love re-reads of PS/SS, when they enter the boat to cross the lake to the castle. In the boat we have Harry, Ron, Hermione...and Neville. She tells us right from the start, doesn't she?
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