Some honest aproach to my neighbors
Listen carefully my Greek compatriots and my Albanian neighbors:
It is sad to hear all these discussions. Neighbors in other regions of Europe argue too, but not so much.
It is incredible what I hear.
Of course Greece has been invaded and populated by many different people. Who is so stupid to talk about pure races? in the balkans?
So many Greeks and Bosnians, Serbs, Albanians Armenians became Turkish Muslims for convenience!
It is historically proven.
South Albania was full of Greeks and Greece full of Arvanites. I use to vacation as a child to a village that old ladies were still talking arvanitika! All my friends were Greek Arvanites we were like brothers. How they came up? Albanian tribes came down they mixed with local stock and became one people. Great patriots and Hellenes all of them. They loved Greece. My great grand mother's family name was Lekkas. Alekos is an albanian way to say Alexis from Alexandros!
As for the ancient Greeks some of them were definitely outstanding not all of them. They killed Socrates for God's sake! They were similarly corrupt like the modern inhabitants of Greece. You know why? Not only because they were our true and maybe the basic balkan ancestors but because they were humans idiots! Imperfect humans!
Today the true Hellenes like in the antiquity are not the Greek nationals but the people that have Hellenic ideas that transpass nationalities. Of course the country where all of this originated was Greece no doubt about that. It belongs to the world.
Modern Greece has good historical credit as well and many outstanding individuals around the world.
After all we still speak a continuation of the ancient Greek. An English Scholar says that Socrates could read a newspaper in Athens because Greek has changed less that Anglosaxon to English for example in a much longer period of time. Of course we are proud about that! Even if my ancestor was Lekkas.
That's why it is the Greek flag that goes first in the Olympic Games and not the Albanian or anything else! Some people have sense respect and memory for the most incredible culture the world even seen. Another British says that the world is a colony of Greece!
The new testament was written in Greek and even the Koran mentions the Greeks. Not the Albanians for God's sake! Even if you are Muslims!
All languages including yours in order to express themselves use Greek letters phonetic system (not phoenician) syntaxes and thousands of important words. The word "music" is Greek for example. If it Mozart or Rap it's music.
Even if we all die one day you will use this word with many others. Ancient Greek culture is enormous for somebody to destroy it!
Everybody wants to claim a piece! Even the all proud Germans and Anglo-Saxons in the 19th century wanted to believe that they descend from them. This is why they were calling us Albanians. (See Falmerayer)
Lord Byron said that he could not distinguish between Greeks and Albanians they had same uniforms. He didnt say that were the same. They were different bands. Souliotes spoke greek and fought the "Turkalvani" (means turkisized Albanians) to the death.
For what you want me to be proud of? Of some in-existent tribal history with no record at all?
Or for war-like tribes that loved always to serve masters and attack peaceful populations and hide back to the mountains?
However these tribes had great individuals!! I have the guts to recognize it and say it!
Ali Pasha loved the Greek culture and tried to convince the stupid Greeks to join him against the Turks. They didn't do it
Mohammed Ali (an Albanian)Ruled Egypt and helped the Greeks there.
So many Viziers of the Ottoman Empire and others were Albanian.
And if you want to know many great individuals were of mixed Greek-Albanian origin. Including the Greek Ottoman aristocracy the Phanariots. Yes some helped a great deal our revolution and they are our national heroes! Is nt the same about Kastriotis for the Albanians? It sounds Greek to me!
I admire Albanians because is a race full of energy and very capable smart people with future. I wish the best. And I wish that Greek and Albanians surpass the religious obstacles that are not necessary and understand that they are THE ONLY RELATED PEOPLE IN THE BALKANS.
I have to also say something. I respect the Turks for one thing. They fought us always hard but they don't talk stupidities. They respect Hellenism. They don't try to take credit from ancient Greeks to say that they were Turks as the do the Albanians and the Slavs of Yugoslav "Macedonia".
You Albanians have a good future in Europe. I want to be your friend. I want to learn your culture and and I want to show you mine. We can learn from each other. Be proud of what you are it is not little.
My user name Rigas Fereos is from the Greek Vlach revolutionary. He dreamed of the United Balkans with Greek official language (rightfully for the reasons tha I explained above). Spain has different nationalities that became one and it's great. They all accepted by will or force The Roman Castilian dialect " castellano" or simply Spanish even if they have their own languages.
But nobody wanted that for our peoples.
Rigas was handed by the Austrians to the Turks and they executed him in Belgrade. You know what?
These our our common enemies, both the Turks and the Austrians (West Europeans in general) even more. Can you imagine united Balkans? The best athletes on earth in almost every competition and in many other things. Not divided in little clans manipulated by some barbarians they call themselves the Great Forces!
That's why I protest for your stupid discussions that make no sense.
If Greece is rich or poor and Albanians work hard these are just temporary conditions that change with circumstances.
If you have ears listen to me. Become friends and isolate negative idiots that like to insult from both sides.
If so many "Albanians" were the leaders of the Greek Revolution, then we can say that Kemal Ataturk was Greek because was born in Thessaloniki. We can assume the same attitude and say that the leader of the Young Turk movement was a Turkisized Greek. Come on!!
How Albanians liberated Greece? Out of what interest?
Explain me why "Albanian" leaders of the Greek revolution did not establish an Albanian state instead and Greece was born? Were they so stupid or these cunning Greeks deceived them? This is ridiculous.
They might have been isolated cases of support against the Turks but in most cases was the opposite, Albanians supporting the Turks against the Greeks.
Greeks, meaning the Hellenic and Hellenized populations of the peninsula had something to defend. A great culture an ancestor's land with history, a cause, a faith, an idea.
The contrary Albanians changed sides because they had a loose tribal tradition but not a civilization. Even in the worst times of the Greek nation they were remnants of a civilization and the hope to revive it. There was a solid base. Greeks do not need anybody's history to start a theory about a new nation.
Why the famous foreigners that came to fight for the Greek cause the "Philhellenes" did not help the Albanians instead? How it escaped their attention the great "Illyrian" nation?
(Just for the record: many of the leaders that you mentioned fought the Turks also out of their own interest. Makrygiannis says to take the properties of the Turks. The Turks did the same in Asia Minor later).
Makrygiannis himself was illiterate and learned how to write as an old man in order to describe his memoirs. (Apomnimonevmata) This illiterate man saved the Parthenon when the Turks started destroying his columns and sent them ammunitions to fight him and not destroy the monument.
Even in the worst times there were Greeks. He knew this was his own sacred heritage made by his ancestors and preffered to sacrifice men instead of letting the Turks destroy it. An Albanian or Turk would not care about that at all. Look at them they sold the Parthenon friezes to this British "noble" Elgin.
As I explained in another text if we want it or not Greece in antiquity and modern times was and still is the most notable culture and civilization in the area. With all due respect to our friends and neighbours.
I myself prefer to talk to a Turk. At least they had an Empire. Either we like it or not they made history. So I prefer to talk to somebody with a background at least. Someone that has something to say.
Many of the Turks were converted Greeks Albanians, Slavs or Armenians? Probably yes but they left their legacy for the Ottoman civilization.
For the Muslim, Orthodox, Catholic, whatever Albanians I only have to say: First define your own existential problems as a nation and then we can talk.
That you grow very much and carving up a big chunk of the region. It is true. It is also true that we grow old and our children are less every time. I wish you the best. I prefer a good prosperous neighbor than an envious one.
I mean no offense we are not better but historical circumstances and our own sacrifices favored us.
However even if the world starts again from the beggining it is impossible for anybody not just you to do again what the Greek nation has done. If the ancient or the modern Greeks had members in their communities of foreign origin means nothing. All great nations do.
As I said to A Spanish friend once: "Even if we all die some day you (the world) will continue speaking in Greek".
Even if Greece was never liberated and we had dissappear or if we extinct, people will visit the land and say: Here once they lived the Greeks! nobody will never mention Arvanites, or anything similar. (I regret to say if the same happens to you you will be forgotten).
I believe that Albanians are capable people, hard workers, progressive and smart. Some are intellectuals like in every nation. However you had some notable individuals but never a great culture or nation.
It is not an excuse that you are caught between two giants. Poland was between Germany and Russia can you imagine? However they formed a great noble nation.
My advice to you is to learn from the Greeks don't hate them. You can only gain things from such a nation without altering your identity. But in order to do that you need first to understand th treasure that Greece is. As for the comment that I heard that you will boost our population I wish it happens. Do you think all the Albanian kids that will be born in Greece will not make Great Hellenes?
shpata Senior Moderator
Posts: 5639
(12/3/06 8:30 am) Reply
re
1) there are no massive greek population in south albania. learn to accept the truth. trying to find/create complementary situation to feel better of your distant albanian ancestery shows the insecurity arvanitis feel in greece.
2)no balkan union, greece hardly relates to the balkans like other balkan nations relate to eachother. i bet fyrom makes relate more to albs than albs to greeks.
Meltdown711 Honorary Member XMod
Posts: 7090
(12/3/06 8:39 am) Reply
hmm
Quote:Souliotes spoke greek
Albanians wouldnt claim the souliots if they spoke Greek...
Re: Some honest aproach to my neighbors
Rigas your nickname is the name of one of the most prominent Greeks and his ideas were great but only for his era.But the Balkan nations have been tested during the difficult last centuries.Which nation headed having as principle the freedom and dignity and which not is obvious nowdays. I'm not as proud for ancient Greeks as I am for our progenitors after the turkish conquest.Some of the "warlike" nations of the north kept their "war abilities" only to fight us...To be more spesific I mean who else...the Albanians. Lets refer to some facts:
1) From 1805-7 300 Turkalbanians under Derven-aga Iliabeg attack Katsantonis and other Sarakatsanian klephts,fortunately Katsantonis had big balls.In 1807 Ali Pasha sents Veli-Gheqa to destroy all Katsantonis' "team"(with him the young then Karaiskakis)...Katsantonis did his "job" again...
2)22-April 1822: Athanasios Diakos with his few men tries to resist to the Turkalbanian army under Omer-Vrioni and Kise-Mehmet in Alamana...which was the result?The impalement of Diakos telling as last words when they asked him to become muslim:"Egw Graikos genithika,Graikos the na pethanw".
3)1822,in the battle of Petta in Arta...6000 Turkalbanians with 2000 Greeks and Philhellenes.
4)1822,6000 Turkalbanians under Omer Vrioni and Ago-Muhurdari attack 300 Suliotes under Georgios Drakos in Avariko.
Don't forget the Laliots,the 1/3 of Dramali's and Ibrahim's army. Also don't forget Arnaoutoglou,Bekir-Pasha and all the Derven-agas who were the main opponents of the klephtarmatolous.
Go tell to a Maniot the word "Turkobardhouniotis" and hear what he has to say...
AND the slaughter of Tripolis,Patra and other Peloponnesian cities after Orlofika in 1770-79.
Should I remind you the Chams and generaly the Albanian "contribution" during the WW2,or the good time the Voreioepirotes have since Albanian state's establishment...Just google Spiromilios-Himara or Dimas(the grandfather of Pirrros).
You said about Arvanites,I personally i can't see Arvanites as less Greeks from Pontians,Peloponnesians,Sarakatsanians etc...
This 3,4 ante 5 % of the Greek population who has Arvanitic origins has gained the title "Hellene" through centuries...not by the force of the Greek state but by their own will.They played an important role in the Revolution with prominent figures like:Tzavelas,Botsaris,Bubulina,Kriezotis,Miaulis,Plaputas.I can't understand how some nationalists Albos dare to claim them.They fought for Greece,they fought the ancestors of today albanians,their descendants live in Greece and identify as Greeks with a dose of antialbanism...Its like we Greeks to be proud for jannisaries...
For the Phanariotes I suppose you mean the Ghiqa family,all the other have medieval origins.
But just not to prettify the history allow me to say something for the other side of Arvanites... When Ibrahim reached Achaia required from the inhabitants of the area to sign the "proskinohartia"-"kneel-papers"...the area of western Achaia where Arvanites live started to sign quickly until Kolokotronis reached the area there and said the incredible phrase :"Fotia kai tsekouri stous proskinimenous"-"Fire and axe to the vassals"...."Nenekos" has became an adjective when we want to say someone traitor...he was Arvanitis from Sageika...Koundouriotis was the main reason why Kolokotronis inprisoned....
You are right for the Turks..I respect them..they've written lot of pages in word history...they don't have any inferiority complex...like....Many Turks have "besa" , Albanians don't believe in anything(i don't mean religion),they can betray you and collaborate with the other without to regret it...and I bet that they are proud for that.Albanians' purpose here in this forum for example is to find negative things to say for Greece and Greeks...even if lots of them work and live in Greece...and the development of their country depends on Greece's investments.
Greece and Greeks have offered to humanity a lot in contrast to our neighbors...and that hurts.Noother nation can demonstrate such history-continuity(except Chinese maybe.)Philhellenes are a good proof for this.
Talking about Albanians I want to note how funny is to see how some antichristian Albos make videos on youtube or declare their pride for Kastriotis(they prefer to call him with his turkish nickname Skanderbeg,I don't know why...) the famous "Athleta Christi" and for "nene" Tereza who every one who knows her he does because she was a nun...I'm curious what Kastriotis would say if he saw all these albos to fight among with Turks...
Rigas Feraios today can be considered an utopist espesially this period when Albanians are in a phase that we and other Balkanians were 100 years before.
"an ginw kala 8a ton xalasw egw auton pou me varese,ean psofisw klaste mou t'arxidia"
Karaiskakis
shpata Senior Moderator
Posts: 5641
(12/3/06 6:29 pm) Reply
re
lol ofcourse the laliots shouldnt have fought. just walk away. they only had 400 men and they did some good damage. it only shows that if there wasnt any ali pasha an early massive alb army (like that of 1770 not the fragmented ones sent in 1822 to 1829) would squashed you before any real resistence was formed.
suliots certainly sided with the greeks, but given to what just happened to them 20 yrs earlier i am not suprised.
not to forget vorioepirots, oh man do they suffer. they are not allowed to secede from albania or open greek schools in albanian villages. they just cant stab albania like they want to. what a crime!
Re: re
I see you speak like an Osman guy...like a true turkalbanian...
I have to add the 12000 Turkalbanians of Kehayiabeg in Valtetsi in 24 April 1821 and the kick on their ass by Anagnostaras and all the other guys...I suppose that you know the picture...an albo forumer has it as signature : Valtetsi
The "army-slaughters" of 1770 were 50 years before the Revolution...those who were affected more were the Peloponnesians not Ali Pasha._
Lets not forget the phrase of the Turkalbanians:"Not to fall at Kolokotronis'sword"...
You should be pondering why Suliots,this mixed group,fought for Greeks/Greece and not Toskeria or "Cameria"...
I think that you are proud to be the chosen coglans of Osman baba...
"an ginw kala 8a ton xalasw egw auton pou me varese,ean psofisw klaste mou t'arxidia"
Karaiskakis
Re: re
How you talk about stabbing? You want to be considered a civilized nation and you wont accept the right of a minority to have schools? The southern part of your state is their ancestral land.
What Albania is offering to them so turning into Greece will stab you? Some kind of freedom? If you go further what Albania is even offering to Albanians?
You dare to say openly in this day and age that you have to opress them in order to forget their fathers identity so Greece will never claim these lands?
The Vorioepirots are Greek speakers that are under pressure TODAY in a global world not hundred years ago.
You dont want them to show their nationality so you will create big Albania? You have the right of expansionism in a world that everybody -at leat officially- is looking to settle?
The arvanites are Greek speakers (go talk Albanian to them). They dont express a desire for any kind of autonomy. They are Greeks and only like to be identified inside Greece like Cretans, or any other group of the Greek society.
You know well that
More than Arvanites (Great grand mother) I am related to the Great Island of CRETE. I can start today and finish tommorow if I spoke for this island.
Do you think I would ever prefer to be an Albanian than a Greek? ?Me or any Greek today with the exception of very few Greek citizens of muslim religion that identify themselves otherwise?
Do you know what is the worst insult that can say a Greek to another? Call him Albanian or Turk or Boulgar anything except a Greek. (Skatoarvaniti, Palioturke etc.)
The football teams of the North in order to offend them in the South they calling them Boulgarians.
Even you, you can not insult us by calling us Greeks! It's impossible. The world will laugh at you! You are trying to say that we are not Greeks but Tourks or Albanians!
It is true that from moment that such a people arrived in the Balkans brough negative influence in Greece.
This is also the only insult you can say to us that we are mixed with Albanians or Tourks. (Remnants of the East Roman or Ottoman Empire).
If you call us Greeks it will be and it is the Greatest Honor.
If an Ancient Spartan or Athenian would rise today he would cry from the decadence of the environment in Greece, but be sure he will be more related to me not to you my friend.
Greece, Hellas would be again his homeland.
Not the Toshkides and the Gheghides
Re: Greece is not in the Balkans
Someone said that Greece does not want to be in the Balkans. It is partially true. Who wants to be part of a region full of problems?
Greece took a different course than other Balkan Countries. However its an utopia to believe it, because our neighbors problems might knock our door. I could say It happens already.
The Balkans cannot do without Greece either. Not only it is the strategic position and its ports that are vital but it is the cornestone for Balkan stability anyway you see it. It is the only country that has not claims and really seeks peace and stability and this is important.
Greece was not always like this. In the 1830s we were very close to a situation similar to that of Albania few years ago. People were poor and therefore hungry and violent. They were kidnnaping British visitors and the rural areas of Greece were very dangerous. These klephts were real thieves by nature.
Some Greek nationalist that for him everything Greek is perfect will tell you that they were left out after the liberation from the Bavarian King and his clan. It is partially true but they were violent people. They even made their fellow Greeks suffer worst than the Turks did during the struggle of the liberation according to Makrygiannis.
LET'S BE HONEST. You can be Greek but not a God. We are not perfect at all.
The consequent years after 1821 formed a nation, a real nation, but the cost was high. Participating in every major war in and out of Greece. Wins and losses, hard work, and foreign help made Greece today. People became less hungry more civilized and you can notice the difference.
For an Albanian unless he is a very unsensitive life in Greece might be difficult today. Many people treat them as inferiors WHICH IS WRONG. At the same time it's a paradise better pay, opportunities, a little better life. Living in Liosia must be hateful like everywhere in ugly immigrant neighborhoods. Albanian mountains must look better. But an extra effort, an adventure to seek a better way life always pays.
The only hope for reconciliation is that these Greek born kids of Albanian or Greek-Albanian origin build a bridge between our nations.
I protest for the Greeks that didnt give the flag to the Albanian child they were wrong. He was ARISTOS. You see these are not Hellenes. What does the origin have to do with a kid in a Hellenic school -that shares our Hellenic education- because he is an Albanian he is not a Hellene? This is wrong!
Regarding Kossovo I understand the Serbs but I know they were also major aggressors generally in the war of Yugoslavia. They had their point too, they had populations and history there. If the Albanians were equally strong would have done the same or worst.
Greece listening to the priests that are not so necessary today as they were a century ago and believing Serbs are our allies and also because of hate for the Albanians defended Serbia even more than Cyprus. To me it is a mistaken political move.
We should not have sided very openly with anyboby. Looking at the circumstances I would have helped more the Albanians. For three reasons: First of all we have direct borders and therefore insepatated, then we have a lot of Albanians in Greece these days, and third all great powers supported Albanians.
What do we have to do with Slavs? Are they really friends?
Those medieval minds will tell about Byzantium. What Byzantium. That idea died in 1922.
Today Greece and Turkey could cooperate also and not follow the traps of the West that wants them enemies. A Greek Tourkish alliance with Albania too and siding with Israel would create a protective arch for the West and prevent the Slavs and the Arabs from their plans in the region.
When Albania gets better it will be the best for Greece. Already Albanians that have become succesfull entrepeneurs in Greece have much better attitude than before.
Of course in a nationalist conflict like the one we unfortunately have in this forum everybody will defend his own nation. I say unfortunatelly because everybody seems quite educated and intellectually above average. It is a pitty that smart people from both sides try to hide the reality even from themeselves and spread the hate.
Wouldnt have been better to make a forum that will make us more friends than enemies?
If your neighbors house is adjustent to yourse and falls down what is going to happen to yourse? Probably Albanians will take advantage and try to pillage everything according to their historic record. We Greeks have to be more tactfull and carefull because we have things to loose.
shpata Senior Moderator
Posts: 5648
(12/4/06 6:49 pm) Reply
re
Quote: have to add the 12000 Turkalbanians of Kehayiabeg in Valtetsi in 24 April 1821
wow you guys are just like hoxha. 3,500 albs become 12,000. i remember readin this in an book from an english author(writen 1865 not too far from events themselves).
he also mentions your favorite suliots, how they spoke albanian and lived just like the muslim albs, instead the power they created they worked for it themselves. they enslaved the surrounding greek villages taxing them for "protection"(call it alb mafia) the same ways beys, agas taxed their estates. they kept expanding their protection to villages which muslim cams used to tax which led to many fights between them. they were not loved at all by the greeks under their protection, but today theyre your hero.
one thing is sure, they were pissed at muslim albs for taking this from them.
like i said if there was no ali, there would be no suliots and an ealry massive army. too bad suliots didnt got the chance to kill ali themselves.
and rigos the idiot what the fuk are you talking about. get lost loser! its not albanias fault youre ashamed of your distant alb origin. if you dont like your ancestors commit suecide.
you want to feel normal by imagening a vice versa situation where a massive greek minority lives in south albania?
know one thing, we do hate you, who the fuk are you to claim the land of my acestors as greek land(where greeks are suffering). ik qiu pederac grek.
Quote:wow you guys are just like hoxha. 3,500 albs become 12,000. i remember readin this in an book from an english author(writen 1865 not too far from events themselves).
Listen ore tourkalvane...I'm not saying bs...my sourse now...Kolokotronis ..he says that Kehayia-bei starts from Yiannena with 4000 Turkalvanous...BUT..in his road south he burns Aigio and Korinth...Kehayiabeh enters Tripolis...knowing that Greeks prepare for battle in Valtetsi he calls 5000 Turkobardhuniotes(I suppose you know ) under Rubi.From the Tripolis' Turkalvanous he sents 1500 cavarly in the back of the Greek army.(I've said 12000 but they were 10.500,kill me )
Suli first inhabited by Kastriotis' soldiers as the legend says and married local women.An albo Suli gave his name to the area.After the Turkish conquest Greek and Albo families fled to the isolated Suli and formed this mixed bilingual(Botsaris made a albo-greek dictionary...where did he learn Greek...from MTV ) group with the Greek conscience.You are right for their practises on the greco-albo population around them.
Rigas said that his great grandmother was Lekas so 12,5 arvanitic blood...do you think that he can have any shame if he has 87.5 Cretan blood?
Quote:you want to feel normal by imagening a vice versa situation where a massive greek minority lives in south albania?
This is your mentality and you know it...we don't have any albanian minority...you have the Greek one...You have the need to make an albanian minority in Greece using the Arvanites but I suppose you know the stupidness of your hope...
Quote:know one thing, we do hate you, who the fuk are you to claim the land of my acestors as greek land(where greeks are suffering)
I didn't expect to hear it from you...hate??? ...You can ask who the fuc are these Epirotes in Albania...the answer is in history books...not in albforumi.
We don't hate you...we just don't respect you because of your history,mentality and ...alvanofatses.
Quote: ik qiu pederac grek.
Trava gamisou re palioalvane
"an ginw kala 8a ton xalasw egw auton pou me varese,ean psofisw klaste mou t'arxidia"
Karaiskakis
shpata Senior Moderator
Posts: 5649
(12/4/06 11:29 pm) Reply
re
Quote:where did he learn Greek...from MTV
he did live in corfu for 20yrs after being driven from suli. you can ofcourse try add greek element by taging it as bilingual community with no identity, but theres no such thing. the community would be alb culture or greek despite any mixing that occurs. and westeners of the time(who loved greece to death BTW) admited of their albophone identity. making exceptions of such obvious interpretations is the same way mendor and suliot claim epirus( strabo said barbarians, so that makes them illyrian). the diffrence being that the westeners did tag them albanians(a irect indetification), despite that most albs were muslim at the time.
Quote:This is your mentality and you know it...we don't have any albanian minority...you have the Greek one...You have the need to make an albanian minority in Greece using the Arvanites but I suppose you know the stupidness of your hope...
you fail to see the point, not suprisingly since your brethren(the jihadist) are among the most retarded people on this planet. point is not that you have an alb minority, you dont. point is you have large portion of your population with albanian ancestary, who are so ashamed of it that they
1)claim their ancestors were vorior epirots, thus arvanitis have no conneciton with albanians.
or
2)south albania is full of opressed greeks. meaning albania is mixed like greece.
this mentality fuels your hunger for south albania even more. yet who lives there? mostly albs like me. damn right im pissed off!!
we dont want anything to do with you, your arabic appearances makes you even less approachable.
Re: re
They were bilingual._
Some toponyms of Souli:Lakka tou Papazafiri,Sukia,Nero Provatinas,Kastania,Koulouria,Parasouli,Kakosouli etc...greek toponyms
Families like these of Zervas and Drakos were from Grecophone villages:Zervo,Martinon.Koutsonikas was a hellenophone Suliote who wrote memoirs where according to him Suliotes were Greeks(exaggeration but not groundless).
Other Suliote families with greek surnames:Kalogeras,Papayiannis( ),Palamas,Matas,(Fotos and Nikas not included,christian names),Bufos etc.
In Eton's writing he refers to Tzavelas who calls his son as “worthy son of Greece”...to see that even and the alvanophone Suliotes had Greek conscience not only an anti-Ali conscience as you said.
Tzavelas communicate with Ali-Pasha in Greek.e.g the letter that Lambros Tzavelas sent to Ali-Pasha in 1792 when the latter held as hostage his son Fotos. He wrote in simple greek... you’ll say that he didn’t write in albanian because they didn’t write in albo then...but this letter just shows his knowledge of greek.(this letter survived because of the English traveller William Eton).
Ahmet Mufit,greatgrand children of Siahnisa,sister of Ali-Pasha writes: “In a letter they sent to empress Ekaterini(Russia) identify themselves, on purpose or ignorance,with Christianism and Hellenism,and named themselves Hellenes...”
Another letter by a turkalvano Ahmet Neprevistani,derven-aga of Kravara to Tzavelas:
“Beloved Kitso Tzavela,your letter I’ve got and your writings well I’ve understood.Tzavela know that from the time I’ve put my gun on my shoulders I think for myself as a king and your hellenobullsh1ts go tell them where they pass,not to me ore orphan.If you want to show your hellenic come here and you’ll understand poorguy those who “eat roasted chestnuts”....etc.”
At 8th February 1828,Lobotina”
And continue as a ps:”you say that your land is hellenic,know that I who have shed so much blood as you say,double blood you gonna shed and you’ll eat kravara and lidoriki(his dervens).But don’t sent these colliers because they only know about coal not about guns. Many words I won’t say to you, return where you were ore orphan,because I spare you who are left only three Suliotes and you all gonna vanished. And for hellenic land as you call it,land I am too and insalah you will meet me soon. Ore Kitso I knew you arvaniti like me,where the hell have you learned these hellenica”
Do you still consider him albo just because he had albo blood...doesn't his fights,conscience etc say anything to your albo minds? How proud can I be for example about a Jannisary???
Quote:you fail to see the point, not suprisingly since your brethren(the jihadist) are among the most retarded people on this planet.
If there weren't these Greeks(jihadists for you) you would be on the trees re alvanee.And why do you hate a nation of retards??Is there any jealousy behind your writings,eee?
All our neighbors give too much attetion to a retarded nation...
Quote: point is you have large portion of your population with albanian ancestary,
I think you've said that you haven't found lots of dinars among Greeks,we are only some jihadist meds and some fat alpines
Quote:who are so ashamed of it that they
Why an Arvaniti in Greece feel ashame if his ancestors were like Botzaris and Tzavellas?
Quote:claim their ancestors were vorior epirots,
Who else do this too?
Quote:thus arvanitis have no conneciton with albanians.
They've done much after they left Arberia so they can be proud of...
Quote:south albania is full of opressed greeks
You write some facts sometimes...
Quote:meaning albania is mixed like greece
If we speak about south Albania,you are full of grecoslav staff.
We still keep our jihadist,fat,hairy look
Quote:this mentality fuels your hunger for south albania even more
Do you think that if we wanted Vorio Epiro we couldn't take it?Or your "warlike character" would prevail us?
"an ginw kala 8a ton xalasw egw auton pou me varese,ean psofisw klaste mou t'arxidia"
Karaiskakis
shpata Senior Moderator
Posts: 5660
(12/5/06 10:19 pm) Reply
re
bufi means owl=alpine, maybe it is greek.
para=before, frontal. suli itself was not very big those 30 villages they controled were not inhabited by suliots per say most were greek servants which they enslaved. for that i like them.
Quote:I think you've said that you haven't found lots of dinars among Greeks,we are only some jihadist meds and some fat alpines
suliots were dinarics.
Quote:Why an Arvaniti in Greece feel ashame if his ancestors were like Botzaris and Tzavellas?
thye were not like suliots. suliots lived next to other albs, arvanitis drifted deep into greece big diffrence. suliots were not racialy mixed. mostly albanian with minor grek influx.
all in all you still couldnt grasp what ive said. arvanitis are not ok with their distant alb origins. if they were they would try to harm albania by forcing a minority that doesnt exist on us. all so to satisfy their psychological problems. i dont think theylle understand either, mixing with retarded middle easteners can only lower brain power.
teuta1975 Registered User
Posts: 44
(4/14/07 2:31 am) Reply
Re: Rigas
"Of course in a nationalist conflict like the one we unfortunately have in this forum everybody will defend his own nation. I say unfortunatelly because everybody seems quite educated and intellectually above average. It is a pitty that smart people from both sides try to hide the reality even from themeselves and spread the hate.
Wouldnt have been better to make a forum that will make us more friends than enemies?"
============================
I like the way you see things my friend but how many of YOU are in Greece? 1%?
If in this forum everyone would talk for peace then it wouldn't represent any interest at all and the forum will die out little by little! That's what "connects" us! Sanguinity!
Can you deny that?
, Albanians don't believe in anything(i don't mean religion),they can betray you and collaborate with the other without to regret it...and I bet that they are proud for that.Albanians' purpose here in this forum for example is to find negative things to say for Greece and Greeks...even if lots of them work and live in Greece...and the development of their country depends on Greece's investments.
: 
I didn't expect to hear it from you...hate???
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