Sources for "twelve" Olympians?
Can anyone tell me which ancient texts actually defined the idea that there was a list of *twelve* Olympians (as opposed to 14), and listed them?
According to Walter Burkert in "Greek Religion" (III.2):
"In Asia Minor a group of Twelve Gods had long been known. The Greeks correspondingly came to assemble their most important gods in a society of twelve. The number is fixed; some names vary, especially Hestia/Dionysos. "
He then mentions the twelve displayed on the Parthenon frieze, so perhaps there is no such textual reference before the 5th century BC.
This is a good question - I thought it would be easy (Hesiod, Homer).
After scanning 'Theogeny' and looking through several mythology sources, I could find no such definite reference by a specific author. This was just a cursory look, and if someone does know of such a source, even a late one, I would like to know as well.
Re: Sources for "twelve" Olympians?
I got curious about the Olympian collective last year sometime and did some digging. Unfortunately, I won't be able to locate my notes for you anytime soon. But I do remember that one of the bases for the Twelve Olympians concept is an actual surviving altar or two to them, as such. Maybe one is at Delphi and the other in Turkey? Dunno.
Anyway, this much I got from a journal article; it wouldn't shock me if I'd gotten the reference from Walter Burkert, but I'm not sure; another candidate would be the OCD3. I'm pretty sure I didn't go so far as to consult Pauly.
(Fourteen? Hmmm. Zeus Hera Poseidon Hades Demeter Apollo Artemis Hermes Hephaestus Ares Aphrodite Hestia Dionysus, ok that's thirteen, but how did you get fourteen?)
I should think there would be some way to extort from the TLG some idea of where "Twelve Olympians" is written in literary sources, although discussions that didn't explicitly number them but just talked about twelve gods as The Olympians would be harder to find.
As I recall, the most prominent story focusing on how many of them there are has to do with the newest one (Dionysus or Aphrodite, I forget) showing up and Hestia saying "Don't worry, you can have my seat, I'd just as soon sit by the fire", so Hestia might be a useful search term for the concept of the number being limited. Of course, the TLG won't help for sources in Latin...
If you really need me to, I can *try* to find my notes sometime in the next month, maybe. But don't bet on my succeeding; I became homeless yesterday, and my storage space is crammed.
Re: Sources for "twelve" Olympians?
You left out Athena. "Canonically", of course, Hades is left out because he's chthonic, and there's that tale about Hestia stepping aside for Dionysus.
I won't tell a lie - I'm posing this question because of a discussion/argument on the Yahoo Groups greek mythology group. People there seem to think that the tradition of Hestia stepping aside for D dates back only as far as Robert Graves, and someone from Greece claims that the list includes Hades but not Demeter, which struck me as very strange.
So if there is actually an ancient source for Hestia stepping aside I'd be very interested to know it. I don't think I have access to the TLG - it's not available online, is it!?!?
Re: Sources for "twelve" Olympians?
a cross-cultural comparison: none of the biblical listings for the twelve tribes of israel agree with one another.
Katherine
Unregistered User
(1/2/04 5:19 am) Reply
Re: Sources for "twelve" Olympians?
I took a quick look at a textbook from my undergraduate days (Morford and Lenardon's _Classical Mythology_, 4th ed.) and found it to be frustratingly uninformative, referring to the 12 and 14 canons but failing to give sources for their list. They did, however, mention a
*Latin* poet, Ennius, who they say "named the twelve principal Roman gods and equated them with the twelve Olympians" (p. 558).
They even give the list:
Iuno
Vesta
Minerva
Ceres
Diana
Venus
Mars
Mercurius
Iovis
Neptunus
Vulcanus
Apollo
Hope that helps.
Katherine Tredwell
Agamemnon
Unregistered User
(1/2/04 5:21 am) Reply
Re: Sources for "twelve" Olympians?
[Apollodorus. 3.14.1] Cecrops, a son of the soil, with a body compounded of man and serpent, was the first king of Attica, and the country which was formerly called Acte he named Cecropia after himself. In his time, they say, the gods resolved to take possession of cities in which each of them should receive his own peculiar worship. So Poseidon was the first that came to Attica, and with a blow of his trident on the middle of the acropolis, he produced a sea which they now call Erechtheis. After him came Athena, and, having called on Cecrops to witness her act of taking possession, she planted an olive tree, which is still shown in the Pandrosium. But when the two strove for possession of the country, Zeus parted them and appointed arbiters, not, as some have affirmed, Cecrops and Cranaus, nor yet Erysichthon, but the twelve gods. And in accordance with their verdict the country was adjudged to Athena, because Cecrops bore witness that she had been the first to plant the olive. Athena, therefore, called the city Athens after herself, and Poseidon in hot anger flooded the Thriasian plain and laid Attica under the sea.
[2] Cecrops married Agraulus, daughter of Actaeus, and had a son Erysichthon, who departed this life childless; and Cecrops had daughters, Agraulus, Herse, and Pandrosus. Agraulus had a daughter Alcippe by Ares. In attempting to violate Alcippe, Halirrhothius, son of Poseidon and a nymph Euryte, was detected and killed by Ares. Impeached by Poseidon, Ares was tried in the Areopagus before the twelve gods, and was acquitted.
[Apollodorus. 2.7.2] Not long afterwards he collected an Arcadian army, and being joined by volunteers from the first men in Greece he marched against Augeas. But Augeas, hearing of the war that Hercules was levying, appointed Eurytus and Cteatus generals of the Eleans. They were two men joined in one, who surpassed all of that generation in strength and were sons of Actor by Molione, though their father was said to be Poseidon; now Actor was a brother of Augeas. But it came to pass that on the expedition Hercules fell sick; hence he concluded a truce with the Molionides. But afterwards, being apprized of his illness, they attacked the army and slew many. On that occasion, therefore, Hercules beat a retreat; but ifterwards at the celebration of the third Isthmian festival, when the Eleans sent the Molionides to take part in the sacrifices, Hercules waylaid and killed them at Cleonae, and marching on Elis took the city. And having killed Augeas and his sons, he restored Phyleus and bestowed on him the kingdom. He also celebrated the Olympian games and founded an altar of Pelops, and built six altars of the twelve gods.
Re: Sources for "twelve" Olympians?
Hmmm, I thought that the Twelve Olympians were the major deities... then you have the minor ones (Persephone, Pan, etc.), and then you have older ones like Hestia, Hekate etc., who were given honor & a seat in Olympus after Zeus established the Olympian order.
The Major Olympians are Twelve, like the Zodiac... right?
"Canonically", of course, Hades is left out because he's chthonic, and there's that tale about Hestia stepping aside for Dionysus.
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