bato Moderator
Posts: 2576
(1/31/06 4:18 pm) Reply
The boundaries of freedom. Or Censure of It? CARTOONS (IPT)IPT thread!
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That is the bigest question of all time,
Can Radical muslim cooexsist in a western society ?
The western society do not need Censure,that is what it stand's for a free speech society where anyone's voice can be heard...Because i consider myself as a free men,artist without any radical and religious orientations i will post one of the cartoons
Danish paper apologizes for publishing cartoons of prophet
Last Updated Tue, 31 Jan 2006 08:14:14 EST
CBC News
A Danish newspaper has apologized to the world's Muslims for publishing cartoons portraying the Prophet Muhammad as a terrorist.
"We apologize for the fact that the cartoons undeniably have offended many Muslims," editor in chief Carsten Juste said in a letter on the Jyllands-Posten website Monday night.
A Danish Flag is burnt in a protest, outside the European Commission building in Gaza City on Monday, Jan. 30. (AP Photo/Emilio Morenatti)
"The last thing we want is to offend other people's religious views, precisely because we believe in religious freedom and respect the individual's right to choose his or her own religion."
The message was also sent to Petra, a Jordan-based news agency.
The 12 drawings were first published in September, but reappeared recently in a Norwegian newspaper. One showed Muhammad wearing a turban shaped as a bomb with a burning fuse.
Islamic tradition prohibits any depiction of the prophet, even a respectful one, on the grounds that it could promote idolatry.
The caricatures sparked anger in the Islamic world, prompting boycotts of Danish products and threats against citizens outside the country.
Saudi Arabia even recalled its ambassador to Denmark, leading Denmark to warn citizens not to travel to Saudi Arabia and be cautious in other Muslim countries.
Juste at first cited freedom of expression in refusing to apologize for the cartoons.
Despite agreeing to post the qualified apology, he insisted the caricatures did not violate Danish law.
"If we really went out and apologized, then the Middle Eastern dictatorships would be able to control what we put in our papers," Juste said in an interview with a Danish news agency.
"We had no idea that this would arouse so much indignation and irritation in the Muslim world. That's what we're apologizing for.''
Anger over the drawings has heated up in recent days.
On Monday, masked gunmen stormed an office used by the European Union in Gaza City to protest the cartoons.
Re: Testing the boundaries of freedom, or Censure of It?What message does it give??
(Rightfully)That of a social and biological time-bomb.
kasandri Kassandriology Moderator
Posts: 662
(2/1/06 8:42 am) Reply
Re: Testing the boundaries of freedom, or Censure of It?
the message it gives is that Muhammed is an islamist and Islam is a dangerous religion, which is a provokation to all muslims
Dijedon Senior Moderator
Posts: 6737
(2/1/06 12:12 pm) Reply
Re: Testing the boundaries of freedom, or Censure of It?
Personally, I feel that the picture is tasteless. Basically, what it does is to equate Islam, the religion, with its radical fraction which naturally many Muslims take offence in.
On the other side, freedom of speech hasn't spared ridiculing the Christian faith in Western media either. Although personally I do not like ridiculing other confessions, there is, nevertheless, a freedom of speech in authentic democracies, and if Muslims want to live in such western democracies, they ought to accept all that comes with it. If they wish to remain strictly islamic, they hve the alternative of not moving to other countries where they're obliged to listen and abide to new laws.
RuseBG Senior Moderator
Posts: 6337
(2/1/06 12:40 pm) Reply
Re: Testing the boundaries of freedom, or Censure of It?
Quote:sure RuseBG the picutures are funny to some but to others
Listen, Kassandri, I don't mind listening to a good joke about Christ or looking at a nice caricature.
But unlike you, religion is not my top priority. Infact it's not even in the top 10.
Senior Mod ('King of Hittites')
Posts: 1967
(2/1/06 12:59 pm) Reply
Re: Testing the boundaries of freedom, or Censure of It?
Quote:In my opinion radical islam shouldn't exist at all. As well as any form of religious fanaticism.
I agree. In fact, it should be stopped from being practiced.
Quote:and if Muslims want to live in such western democracies, they ought to accept all that comes with it. If they wish to remain strictly islamic, they hve the alternative of not moving to other countries where they're obliged to listen and abide to new laws.
And it's time someone tells them that. If you don't like it, get out!
Re: Testing the boundaries of freedom, or Censure of It?
Quote:so I can talk bad about Christians and drag their name through the mud cause it is a free speach society?
Bato do you think this picture of Muhammed is acceptable? What message does it give??
Free speech society and freedom of speech..That is the big difference betwen the radical muslim and western culture(here we do not choop heads about a cartoon)...
kasandri Kassandriology Moderator
Posts: 666
(2/1/06 4:20 pm) Reply
Re: Testing the boundaries of freedom, or Censure of It?
Bato,
what are you saying that Islam is a synonym with radical Islam? huh?
Re: Testing the boundaries of freedom, or Censure of It?
Quote:what are you saying that Islam is a synonym with radical Islam? huh?
I didn't said that read it well....What we don't need is radical wiews,I said in a free society everyone has a chance to be listened(how many cartoons haven ben made about Jesus?....Did you so any angrey cristian crowd burning and destroying?)....
Edited by: bato at: 2/1/06 5:05 pm
kasandri Kassandriology Moderator
Posts: 667
(2/1/06 7:28 pm) Reply
Re: Testing the boundaries of freedom, or Censure of It?
Quote:I didn't said that read it well....What we don't need is radical wiews,I said in a free society everyone has a chance to be listened(how many cartoons haven ben made about Jesus?....Did you so any angrey cristian crowd burning and destroying?)....
the subject is more sensitive and more different because what is happening today,
the threats against the whole danish people and the burning of the danish flagg is, of course, an exaggeration and it is indeed an aggression and violent behavior,
however this time media really gets a taste of their own medicine, this is what happens when you insult a group of people, weather it is in words or picture.
Re: Testing the boundaries of freedom, or Censure of It?
Quote:so I can talk bad about Christians and drag their name through the mud cause it is a free speach society?
Indeed you can, and the harsh criticism it has endured over the last centuries is one of the reasons that European Christianity is as moderate as it is, and can work with relatively few difficulties in our secular democracies. Some people have been offended in the process of pushing the existing boundaries, but fortunately didn't resort to violence.
Re: Testing the boundaries of freedom, or Censure of It?
Quote:That is the bigest question of all time,
Can Radical muslim cooexsist in a western society ?
It seems the anti-muslim rant has started again. What an irony... the most loyal ally of the americans has now turned against his former boss.
It will be amusing watching their own weapon humiliating them.
It was like yesterday when the yanks were making Rambo films where the americans were aiding the Talebans..the very same Talebans that have now so suddenly become their enemies.
The most amusing part in the story is that no one actually remembers this. They all have somehow forgotten who created these muslim radicals.
I come from times when anywhere you manifested your opinion loudly; you could start a revolution.. that is why they were shutting your mouth.
I go to times that whatever you say, however you say it and to how many people you say it; it doesn't really matter.. that is why they are letting you to speak.
Re: Testing the boundaries of freedom, or Censure of It?
I have been thinking of creating an IPT topic regarding this and this thread appears as a good IPT material. The issue that is raised is of vital importance, not only for Europe but for the world. The issue is (as it has been stated) can radical religious dogma (in this particular case radical Islam) coexist with modern Secular Western World that has been making cultural and political inroads in various Islamic countries (of which many are now secular). Bellow NYT article that I am posting is also showing us that the European public is presented by similar articles in various other European countries (vanguards of the modern secular world).
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More European Papers Print Cartoons of Muhammad, Fueling Dispute With Muslims
By ALAN COWELL
Published: February 2, 2006
COPENHAGEN, Feb. 1 — Broadening a debate that has set Europe against the Islamic world, several European newspapers on Wednesday reprinted cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad in an unflattering light, supporting a Danish newspaper that had inspired a huge outcry in the Islamic world by publishing them in the first place.
The newspapers' actions fed a sharpening debate here over freedom of expression, human rights and what the culture editor of Jyllands-Posten, the paper that first published the cartoons last September, called a "clash of civilizations" between secular Western democracies and Islamic societies.
Indeed, the culture editor, Flemming Rose, said in an interview: "This is a far bigger story than just the question of 12 cartoons in a small Danish newspaper.
"This is about the question of integration and how compatible is the religion of Islam with a modern secular society — how much does an immigrant have to give up and how much does the receiving culture have to compromise."
In recent days, Denmark has become the object of a widespread boycott of its goods in Muslim countries, its diplomats have been summoned to be dressed down in Tehran and Baghdad, and protesters have taken to the streets of Gaza.
While Jyllands-Posten has apologized for giving offense, it has not apologized for publishing the cartoons, one of which depicts the prophet wearing a bomb-shaped turban. Images of Muhammad are regarded as blasphemous by many Muslims.
The Danish prime minister, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, has rejected demands by Arab governments for an official apology, saying: "I can't call a newspaper and tell them what to put in it. That's not how our society works."
Mr. Rose called the decision not to apologize for printing the cartoons "a key issue of principle."
Some Muslim leaders in Copenhagen have said they accept the apology from Jyllands-Posten, but Arab and Islamic governments in the Middle East have continued to express outrage.
In support of the Danish position, newspapers in France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Spain and Switzerland reprinted some of the cartoons on Wednesday. A small Norwegian evangelical magazine, Magazinet, also published the cartoons last month.
The dispute has been likened to a string of earlier cultural confrontations between Islam and the West, beginning with the death sentence declared in 1989 on the British author Salman Rushdie by Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini in Iran after the publication of "The Satanic Verses."
In 2004, a Dutch filmmaker, Theo van Gogh, was murdered after making a film called "Submission," which dealt with violence against women in Islamic societies.
Robert Ménard, the secretary general of Reporters Without Borders, a Paris-based body that monitors media developments, said in a telephone interview: "All countries in Europe should be behind the Danes and Danish authorities to defend the principle that a newspaper can write what it wishes to, even if it offends people.
"I understand that it may shock Muslims, but being shocked is part of the price of being informed."
On Wednesday, Syria became the latest Arab country to withdraw its ambassador from Denmark, saying publication of the cartoons "constitutes a violation of the sacred principles of hundreds of millions of Arabs and Muslims," according to SANA, the Syrian state news agency.
The Danish Embassy in Damascus was evacuated after a bomb threat on Wednesday, but no bomb was found.
In Paris, the newspaper France Soir, printed all 12 of the cartoons in question. The newspaper declared, "No religious dogma can impose its view on a democratic and secular society."
Arnaud Lévy, the editor in chief of France Soir, said there had been no coordination between European editors about publishing the cartoons simultaneously. "Absolutely not," he said in a telephone interview.
In Berlin, a senior German editor, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because she was not authorized to speak on behalf of her employers, also said there had been no contacts among European newspapers to synchronize their coverage.
France Soir's decision to publish the cartoons drew a sharp response from French Muslims.
Dalil Boubakeur, leader of the French Council for the Muslim Religion, called the publication of the cartoons a "provocation" and an abuse of press freedom that was disrespectful of the world's more than one billion Muslims. "The publication of the cartoons can only revive tensions in Europe and the world at a time when we are trying to unite people," he said.
In Germany, the conservative Die Welt printed one image on its front page and declared in an editorial: "The protests from Muslims would be taken more seriously if they were less hypocritical. When Syrian television showed drama documentaries in prime time depicting rabbis as cannibals, the imams were quiet."
In Italy, the Turin daily La Stampa published the cartoons on Wednesday. Milan's Corriere della Sera printed them on Monday. In Spain, they were printed in El Periódico on Wednesday.
Dominique von Burg, the editor in chief of Switzerland's Tribune de Genčve, which planned to publish the cartoons on Thursday, told Agence France-Presse: "You can understand the feelings of Muslims, but we're in a pluralist state. We have a right to do that." The Swiss newspaper Blick published two of the cartoons on Tuesday.
Freedom of expression is a closely protected right in Denmark, to the extent that the country became known in the 1970's as a haven for hard-core pornography.
Niels-Erik Hansen, a lawyer at a center offering legal support for people complaining of racial discrimination, said the debate over the cartoons raised the question of whether it would provoke attacks on Denmark's 200,000 Muslims in a nation of some 5.4 million people.
"There's a balance here between freedom of speech and the right not to be subjected to racial discrimination." he said. "It's a difficult line."
But Carsten Juste, the editor in chief of Jyllands-Posten, said the principle to be drawn from the debate was that opponents of press freedom had secured a victory. "My guess is that no one will draw the Prophet Muhammad in Denmark in the next generation, and therefore I must say with deep shame that they have won," he said in an interview with the Danish newspaper Berlingske Tiden.
Dan Bilefsky contributed reportingfrom Brussels for this article, and Judy Dempsey from Berlin.
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Less Balkanian Dogmatic Paranoia. More Rational Ancient Hellenic Wisdom.
Senior Mod ('King of Hittites')
Posts: 2011
(2/3/06 2:46 am) Reply
Re: Testing the boundaries of freedom, or Censure of It?
Forget the outside world. I was censored here, in Illyria, from posting those images of Muhammad. My post was removed from the Bosniac, Albanian, and Turkish forum. Where does Aadmin stand on that?
Re: Testing the boundaries of freedom, or Censure of It?
There were and are tons of websites on the internet that poke fun at Islam, way before that Danish paper. Why aren't muslims protested about that before? I wonder who's hand is behind all this fuss and what is his ultimate goal...
Re: Testing the boundaries of freedom, or Censure of It?
So I'm asking why didn't Muslims revolt before? Maybe because Denmark is seen as an easy target?
at: 2/27/06 8:52 pm
at: 2/2/06 2:28 pm
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