rmangles Registered Member
Posts: 13
(7/18/05 4:58 am) Reply
Theories about Snape (possible whole book spoilers)
Hi,
I've been mulling over the entire HP series this weekend, and especially HBP, and I keep coming back to Snape on 2 subjects.
Theory #1 (Is he all Evil?):
Dumbledore is SO convinced of Snape's trustworthiness wrt OotP that I'm still left wondering if there is something else that we do not know. It seems to me that Dumbledore is a hard person to fool, so there is still a part of me that thinks Snape, at the end of HBP, was still operating under Dumbledore's orders. Sort of sacrificing for the greater Good.
OTOH, we know that to use one of the Unforgiveable Curses, a wizard has to have a certain amount of strength of emotion. Is it possible that Snape was possibly operating under the Imperius Curse like Madam Rosmerta? Or possessed by Voldemort? Being so accomplished at Legilimency, it seems difficult to believe that this could occur without Snape's express consent.
Theory #2 (Why does Snape HATE Harry so much?):
I think that Snape had a thing for Lily Evans and he was the reason that she was so accomplished at Potions. Remember Slugworth praising Harry for being like Lily? I believe that Snape helped Lily out at Potions because of his infatuation with her. Lily then got all of the praise and attention (membership to the Slug Club) that Snape was denied.
She, in turn, unwittingly or otherwise, shared his secrets with James and allowed James to use Snape's spells against him. In a final act of betrayal, she chose James over Snape and had James' baby. I doubt that she did this on purpose but her actions just sealed Snape's utter hatred of James.
When Snape heard the prophecy, he knew full well that it did not necessarily mean Lily and James' child, but twisted it around to Voldemort, so that he would go after Harry. Lily died to save Harry which just made Snape hate Harry even more.
I think Snape wants to be "good" but he just can not get past his feelings for Harry.
What do you think? Please discuss and share your own theories.
obsessed...but
not in a crazy way.
Posts: 63
(7/18/05 6:10 am) Reply
Re: Theories about Snape (possible whole book spoilers)
Therory No3.
Snape is evil. And a great actor. And actually fooled DD. DD's one fault is he gives people second chances, and Volders and Snape were using this to the full advantage. Snape is better at legilimency than DD and would be able to block DD from seeing what he didn't want shown.
Not saying that's true,but it is a possiblility that Snape has just been an evil git from the beginning.
Smile, it makes people wonder what you're up to!
rmangles Registered Member
Posts: 14
(7/18/05 6:45 am) Reply
Re: Theories about Snape (possible whole book spoilers)
Quote:Snape has just been an evil git from the beginning.
Heh, this is what I WANT to believe.
Rose
Nothing works unless you do.
LadyCadagon Registered Member
Posts: 154
(7/18/05 10:55 am) Reply
Re: Theories about Snape (possible whole book spoilers)-SPOILERS-
I think that when Harry was trying to tell Dumbledore about the vow that Draco and Snape took Dumbledore knew about it. Dumbledore said to Harry that he knew more of what they were talking of than Harry.
I think that after Snape made that vow with Cissy that he went and told Dumbledore. Afterwards Dumbledore probably then told Snape that when it came down to it to go ahead and go through with it. Snape probably didn't want to do it and when it was happening there at the end when Dumbledore said "Severus Please", I think Dumbledore was telling Snape to just do it. Therefore I somewhat agree with "rmangles" first post, and that Dumbledore sacrificed himself for the greater good. I bet he told Snape to stay at his post and still get on the inside with Voldemort. In the end Snape may be helping Harry.
And when Harry was chasing after the lot of Death Eaters, Snape was just blocking Harry curses (if he sent any towards Harry I missed them; I am going to have to read it again). Then he also shouted at the siblings to leave Harry alone, because he belongs to the Dark Lord. I think he was saving Harry once again.
Then again I could absolutely be wrong and Snape is purely evil.
Registered Member
Posts: 85
(7/19/05 6:47 pm) Reply
Re: Theories about Snape (possible whole book spoilers)
I am more confused than ever about whether Snape is good or bad!!
Along those same lines LadyCadagon, I just saw this that someone had posted on another website:
"Dumbledore knew that the potion was going to kill him. When Snape appears when they have Dumbledore cornered it says Snape gazed at him. They are both Legilimens and they were probably communicating back and forth. I think Dumbledore told Snape to kill him because he was going to die anyway from the potion. This would have kept Snape's cover with the death eaters and also fulfill the Unbreakable Vow with Narcissa. And him "pleading" with Snape was for Snape to do it and trust him. And maybe the revulsion and hatred was for Voldemort and what he had to do."
obsessed...but
not in a crazy way.
Posts: 64
(7/19/05 7:47 pm) Reply
Re: Theories about Snape (possible whole book spoilers)
I'd rather believe Snape is evil.
Ok only cause I never liked the greasy hair, big nosed git!
Smile, it makes people wonder what you're up to!
lilkat313 Registered Member
Posts: 10
(7/19/05 8:25 pm) Reply
Re: Theories about Snape (possible whole book spoilers)
he's evil! def.
he has been evil all along! you can tell specially after chapt. 2
i can't believe he fooled DD
then again as they said....he is a skilled occulmens....
rmangles Registered Member
Posts: 16
(7/20/05 6:33 am) Reply
Re: Theories about Snape (possible whole book spoilers)
One more thought on whether or not Snape is truly evil:
I just finished re-reading the end of GoF, I noted some of stuff that really didn't mean much the first time through.
When Volders came back, he surveyed his Death Eaters. There were 3 missing. The most faithful one was at Hogwarts (Crouch). One was a coward (Karkaroff) and the other he suspected was "gone forever" (Snape).
Sure enough, Karkaroff had run off and was reported killed in Book 6. Crouch, obviously, got the dementor's kiss in Book 4. Then Snape had a little chat with Dumbledore at the end of Book 4 where Dumbledore pressed him on whether or not he was willing to go through with his "assignment" (like Hagrid and Madam Maxime going to see the giants), but they weren't real specific as to his exact instructions.
I really think that Snape killed Dumbledore on Dumbledore's instructions to "prove" to Volders that Snape is one of his.
He's still a greasy, evil, snot-nosed git, but I suspect killing Dumbledore was part of a bigger plan.
Registered Member
Posts: 3
(7/25/05 9:27 am) Reply
Re: Theories about Snape (possible whole book spoilers)
I really think that Dumbledore wanted Snape to kill him. He was obviously going to die soon anyway, the foreshadowing was all over the place. No matter what, there's more to Snape than meets the eye.
The Grand Poobah
Posts: 194
(7/25/05 10:21 am) Reply
My thoughts on Snape.
I don't think he's evil.
I think that, of all the members of the OotP, he has the most to be thanked for. He's the bravest. He's done the most dangerous things and put himself in harm's way.
He's the most talented occlumens in the world. Only he can do what he's been doing.
He managed to save Draco AND Harry in this one.
Killing Dumbledore was already worked out, and Dumbledore was pleading because he knew Severus didn't want to do it. He worried that Snape would fail in the task of killing him and that Draco would be ruined forever by it. He also didn't want one of the strangers to do it. He needed Severus to do it.
I cannot recall where, but there was a place where Dumbledore and Snape are arguing. Snape says he "doesn't want to do it anymore," and Dumbledore says something like, "Well...you have to, and you're gonna."
I think that's what they were talking about.
Snape isn't evil. He's a hero. I have to go on believing that.
"The two most abundant things on the planet are hydrogen and stupidity."
~Harlan Ellison
obsessed...but
not in a crazy way.
Posts: 63
(7/25/05 10:37 am) Reply
Re: My thoughts on Snape.
I still say Snape is evil.
He may end up being on the Order's side, but he's evil.
He's taken out his hatred of a dead man on the surviving child. How evil is that? Harry was 11, knew nothing of the wizarding world, and Snape projected all the hate he had of James all over Harry. That is evil, no bones about it. And he kept it up for years. He never tried to see Harry for Harry. He saw only James and got his revenge for James being a prat.
That is evil.
Funny, yet again, Hogwarts is without a DADA teacher after only a year.
I think Snape is a good guy within reason. He had made that Vow with Malfoys Mom. So, if he had not done what Malfoy was about to NOT do (ie. kill DD) then Snapes own life would be over and he wouldn't have been able to go back to V. and work from the inside.....
(I had posted a lot more but my internet crashed and I had to retype- the first go 'round was a lot better).
Registered Member
Posts: 2
(8/9/05 11:50 am) Reply
Re: My thoughts on Snape.
Yay, I finally finished it so I can catch up with you guys!
I agree with this:
Quote:Killing Dumbledore was already worked out, and Dumbledore was pleading because he knew Severus didn't want to do it. ...
I cannot recall where, but there was a place where Dumbledore and Snape are arguing. Snape says he "doesn't want to do it anymore," and Dumbledore says something like, "Well...you have to, and you're gonna."
I think that's what they were talking about.
Me too.
I think Snape had no choice. I think deep down he's not a bad guy. I've always wondered why he hates Harry so much, though.
Draco was not at all evil in this one, just wimpy.
Registered Member
Posts: 91
(8/9/05 12:26 pm) Reply
Re: My thoughts on Snape.
I wonder if we'll all be surprised, and find out it's all an act and he doesn't really hate Harry. What are the odds... .01%?
On the one side, how can he appear to be Harry's enemy and on Voldemort's side if he appears to be kind to Harry in any way. But then on the other side, maybe he really does hate Harry, and he's struggling between his hatred for Harry and his desire to see Voldemort destroyed... (that is, assuming he's a good guy after all!)
Edited by: lavanwen at: 8/9/05 12:28 pm
ejeana Registered Member
Posts: 99
(8/9/05 10:14 pm) Reply
Re: My thoughts on Snape.
I really get the feeling that when Snape sees Harry, he's basically seeing James. Even if he and James hadn't been enemies, James was the kind of person who would inspire admiration/jealousy in people less...fortunate. He was a star athlete, popular, good looking, etc, etc, all of which Snape was not. And, unfortunately, based on book five, he seems to have been rather full of himself.
James always got the attention, and now, with Harry in Hogwarts, it's probably like it's happening all over again---Harry being famous, "the boy who lived", the Quidditch star, always getting out of scrapes, etc, etc.
One very key difference, though, that I'm not sure Snape gets, is that Harry genuinely does not want the attention. His fame is based on something no one in their right mind would want to be famous for. He didn't seek it. And as far as the other stuff, like Quidditch, he seems to have a pretty humble attitude, even if he does like to stick it to Malfoy, which is quite understandable. But I think Snape assumes Harry's just basking in his glory because that's the way James was.
getstrong Registered Member
Posts: 1
(8/11/05 1:45 pm) Reply
Re: My thoughts on Snape.
Hasn't Snape been involved in practically every rescue of Harry since he came to Hogwarts? Usually behind the scenes, but he's the one working his wand or potions, or calling out the alarm to DD.
Snape can dislike Harry, and still recognize and protect him as the key to defeating Voldie. Hogwarts teachers show favoritism toward their own house, and Snape has an interest in keeping Draco happy, because it all gets back to death-eater father.
I think Snape is the good guy and may die saving Harry. The "Sn" combination makes me think of sneaky, snide, sneering, snake, and snap - like a trap.
Melitta Registered Member
Posts: 3
(8/16/05 7:40 am) Reply
Re: My thoughts on Snape.
I'm still convinced Snape is playing the part of the double agent superbly. However, Dumbledore has always trusted him, and that's good enough for me.
I do NOT like the way Snape treats Harry. Snape has just seemingly hated Harry from the beginning. It's not Harry's fault that James taunted Snape.
I got the impression, in the beginning of HBP, in the scene with Malfoy's mom and her sister, that Snape didn't really know what Draco's task was. He just pretended he knew and hoped one of the women would actually say it.
I believe there were two scenes we didn't see in the book:
First, Snape would have told Dumbledore that he had sworn the Unbreakable Vow to help Malfoy with some task and do it himself if Malfoy fails, but he didn't know what the task was yet.
Second, and later, Snape would have come back and told Dumbledore that Malfoy's task was to kill Dumbledore. I can just see Dumbledore calmly replying, "well, Severus, then I suppose I shall simply have to die."
If Snape is guilty of anything, it's being afraid to die himself by breaking the Unbreakable Vow.
I've been looking at the films again. In the very first Potions class with Snape, he was listing the things he could teach his students, and the last one he mentioned was that he could teach them how to "put a stopper in death itself." Hmmmm.....maybe this was why Dumbledore wanted Snape when he and Harry returned from their excursion.
What do you think?
Edited by: Melitta at: 8/16/05 10:49 am
The Grand Poobah
Posts: 203
(8/16/05 9:30 am) Reply
Re: My thoughts on Snape.
Quote:and the last one he mentioned was that he could teach them how to "put a stopper in death itself." Hmmmm.....maybe this was why Dumbledore wanted Snape when he and Harry returned from their excursion.
You're brilliant. You're ABsoLUTELY brilliant.
I had not thought of that.
"Except for ending slavery, fascism, nazism, and communism, war has never solved anything."
LadyCadagon Registered Member
Posts: 167
(8/17/05 11:27 am) Reply
Re: My thoughts on Snape.
Quote:Second, and later, Snape would have come back and told Dumbledore that Malfoy's task was to kill Dumbledore. I can just see Dumbledore calmly replying, "well, Severus, then I suppose I shall simply have to die."
When I read this part melitta I was like oh my gosh that sounds so much like something Dumbledore would say. It's possible.
Registered Member
Posts: 2
(9/28/05 9:45 am) Reply
Re: My thoughts on Snape.
I believe that DD is not dead...that they did take advantage of Snape being able to put a "stopper on death" and that it is all to lead LV to believe that DD is out of the picture. Snape is really good and has been pretending to despise Harry as part of the plan as to show affection or liking may interfere with what LV thinks of him. In addition, in book 1, DD tells Mcgonagall that he trusts Hagrid "with his life" when they are sitting outside pivet dr waiting for hagrid to bring harry.
Quote:I think that, of all the members of the OotP, he has the most to be thanked for. He's the bravest. He's done the most dangerous things and put himself in harm's way.
ITA, in HBP at the end when Harry is chasing Snape -- Harry calls him a coward and Snape gets really angry. Out of all of them he is the one that is the bravest for pretending to be a DE.
Dumbledore was begging Snape to kill him, not spare him. It was all planned out. DD was to die to save Draco, that was the only way to save him.
I think he dislikes Harry 1) because of Harry's dad, but 2) because Harry isn't living up to his full potential. Harry always just skates by, when he could and should be one of the best wizards and he needs to be in order to finish off Voldemort.
I have to go on believing that.
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