Illyria (Balkans) Forums
    > Vlachs,Aromanians,Istriots,etc..
        > VLACHS AND ALB-VLACH CONNECTION
New Topic    Add Reply

Page 1 2 3

<< Prev Topic | Next Topic >>
Author
Comment
shpata
Moderator
Posts: 628
(6/28/03 4:25 am)
Reply

VLACHS AND ALB-VLACH CONNECTION
Quote:
The true origin of the Vlachs can be worked out, however, from the linguistic evidence. The Vlach-Romanian language (which was a single language until the two main forms of it began to diverge in the early middle ages) has a large number of special features in common with Albanian. These include fundamental matters of grammar and syntax, a number of special idioms, and a core vocabulary of words connected with pastoral life. Albanian, the one survivor of the languages of the Illyrian tribes, also contains a huge number of words borrowed from Latin, indicating close contact with a Latinized population throughout the Roman period. A combination of historical linguistics, the study of place-names and the history of the Roman Empire yields the fairly certain conclusion that the heartland where both these languages developed was an area stretching from northern Albania through Kosovo and south-central Serbia: it may also have included parts of northern Macedonia and western Bulgaria. Most of the Romanized and Latin-speaking population of this area (whose version of Latin was influenced by their own language, Illyrian) was dispersed, destroyed or assimilated by the invasions of the dark ages, especially those of the Slavs. A remnant which practised pastoralism was able to survive in the mountains, unaffected by the Slavs' takeover of settled agriculture; and in the more remote mountains (especially those of northern Albania) it was also in close contact with an even earlier remnant, which still spoke the Illyrian language, albeit a version of Illyrian which had become heavily infused with Latin after centuries of contact. That is the explanation accepted by nearly all the independent scholars who have studied this question; unfortunately the issue has been bedevilled by misplaced national pride on the part of Romanian writers, who cannot accept that the first speakers of Romanian came from south of the Danube.



it also should be added that it also been bedevilled by serbian writters.




Quote:
Since this northern Albanian and southern Serbian region was the original heartland of the Vlachs, it is not surprising that they should have spread out into the nearby uplands of Hercegovina from an early period. From there they moved northwards through the mountainous Dalmatian hinterland, where they are found tending flocks (and bringing them down to the coastal lands in the winter) as early as the twelfth century. There are many references to them in the records of Ragusa and Zadar from the thirteenth to fifteenth centuries. Some of these pastoral Vlachs also penetrated as far as central Bosnia, where medieval place-names in the regions of Sarajevo and Travnik indicate their presence: Vlahinja, Vlaskovo, Vlasic. And many Vlach words connected with pastoral life were absorbed into Bosnian dialects of Serbo-Croat: trze, a late-born lamb, from the Vlach tirdziu, for example, or zarica, a type of cheese, from the Vlach zara. This last word is in fact a version of the Albanian word dhalle, "buttermilk" -- one of many details pointing to the pastoral symbiosis between Vlachs and Albanians, which continued to operate over a long period.
Most of these early Dalmatian and Bosnian Vlachs seem to have led quiet, secluded lives in the mountains. But in Hercegovina itself, where there was a large concentration of Vlachs, a more military and aggressive tradition developed. There are many complaints in Ragusan records of raids by these neighboring Vlachs during the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries. The Vlachs of Hercegovina were horse-breeders and caravan-leaders who, when they were not engaged in plunder, grew rich out of the trade between Ragusa and mines of Bosnia; some of them were probably responsible for commissioning the imposing Bosnian stone tombstones or stecci decorated with carvings of horsemen. Their trading links to the east must have brought them more into contact with the Vlach peoples of Serbia and Bulgaria, who had long traditions of military activity in the armies of the Byzantine emperors and Serbian kings.


==============

Shpata, as a Lab you should know there are rules you should obey! Isnt it? Mehmeti is dead, little boy!

Edited by: Tirane at: 6/28/03 11:18 pm
Real Illyrian
Membrum
Posts: 61
(6/28/03 7:59 am)
Reply

actually
over 2/3 of all Serbs have a clear Montenegrin / Hercegovina origin that they are aware of and this especially goes for Krajina and Bosnia Serbs as well as most of western part of Serbia Proper.

Vlachs are nothing more than Romanized Illyrians (who are of Hellenic Brygian origin) as so clearly are the Montenegrins and Hercegovinians.

Tirane
Moderator
Posts: 520
(6/28/03 12:54 pm)
Reply

Re: BOSNIAN SERBS ARE VLACHS AND ALB-VLACH CONNECTION
Shpata

go on. Next time probably you bring something better, because above apart of your title there is nothing to say what you claim.

kids

shpata
Moderator
Posts: 630
(6/28/03 4:35 pm)
Reply

re
here is th link........
www.farsarotul.org/nl16_1.htm

real illyrian, no one cares of your patheric theories. from crete, to dorians, to phrygians, to illyrians. youy guys are everything. thats the most dumbest thing i ever heard.

===========

to tirane. it does say allot. there were no orthodox people(not significant) in herceg and bosnia untill vlachs came. its strange that bosnian serbs live were these vlach settled ones while the rest bcame muslims.:D


and again, herceg vlachs were known to be aggressive.
this trait can be seen on you (a serb from herceg). you sqeez peoples balls, and get suprised when people defend themselves as if you did nothing. what can i say, its natural part of you. to verbally abuse people is a normal thing for you. >D

canaris
Moderator
Posts: 491
(6/28/03 11:40 pm)
Reply

to tirane and shpata..
out of common courtisie you guys should try to refrane from editing each others posts since you are both "moderators".... it does not make any sense to edit each other..You will eventually kill this forum.

Ps. Tirane you are being a little bid to harsh on people..thats my opinion and yes I know you can delete this post too.

Tirane
Moderator
Posts: 524
(6/28/03 11:59 pm)
Reply

Re: to tirane and shpata..
canaris

that was not a good judgement!
Look at the way Shpata writes. He would like to post something he makes up, and that is choice, I have no problem with that. What he cant do, is posting about other nations in a forum that is for Albanians.

He knows that very well, and he doest it based on the same comlexity people like Dijedon have. They see Albanian forum as something where they are protected, untouched from foreign neighbors they hate so much.

You cannot be easy with arrogant stubborn people!

Dont you know that?

======

ps: does one wish to speak about Bosnian Serbs, he can do that in appropriate forum.

does wish to speak about how tirane is aggressive, he can do it either in Barbar forum, or critic forum.

Where is the difficulty in here? I tell you what. Difficulty is in the point that these bunch of arrogants, a region in Albania that produces the most famous gangsters, mafious etc etc do not like to be told what to do.

Edited by: Tirane at: 6/29/03 12:21 am
Tirane
Moderator
Posts: 525
(6/29/03 12:07 am)
Reply

Re: VLACHS AND ALB-VLACH CONNECTION
As you can see Labs are not able to make history. They are able only for Fecor and Mehmet Shehu type of terror/intrigues/servilism....

however, these labs cannot realise that Serbs in Bosnia entered history with that name and so are known today. They are not living in regions with other nations toponymy etc

like the lost greeko-slavo-vlachs of Laberia (Selenica, Drashovica, Zvernec, Kamenica etc etc) or Zagoria

come on...be proud of your messed up ancestry.

What's the funniest is that thesepeople think being a Lab is better than being a lost greeko-slavo (macedonian)-vlach of what was known as Epir....

Dijedon
Amicus
Posts: 666
(6/29/03 12:52 am)
Reply

Vlleh
This topic does belong to albanian forum since it speaks of albo-vlach relationship.

Shpata: Did you know that there are/were some albanian toponyms in Herzegovina, like Burmaz (Burrėmadh)? Do you believe they might of been brought there by half-romanizated Vlachs?

There are also stories of Vlachs in Motenegro.

I believe Vlachs are related to us. They have pretty much the same anthropology, the linguistical ties points this out to.

I“d like to find out more on Vlachs in other Balkanic natiosn like the serbian. Most Vlachs there are serbianized, but there are those like "Luctor" whom have preserved their Vlachs origin.

Tung!

shpata
Moderator
Posts: 634
(6/29/03 1:17 am)
Reply

the forum
has already been killed. he posts ridicilous topics such as "slavic topinyms". than when questions arise at the topic about greece and rumania he replys by saying: the topic was only about slavic topinyms in albania nothing more".

its a bull$hit game he is playing.

i havent delete his comments, at least yet. i only did when deleted some lengthy writting that took me some 15 minutes. that i will not tolerate.

and canaris, come on man. what can i do. as i said before if to moderators fight, the big dog(addmin) will be invovled. and its obvious whose side he will take, and very possibly be taken away my moderating status. thats why tirane is rubbing me against the floor, hoping ill fight back.


just some examples, from this post only.


Quote:
Shpata, as a Lab you should know there are rules you should obey! Isnt it? Mehmeti is dead, little boy!f


should a person be judged by what ethnic or sub-ethnic group he belongs?? and who is mehmeti?? and no i dont care who he is!

Quote:

Shpata

go on. Next time probably you bring something better, because above apart of your title there is nothing to say what you claim.

kids


Quote:
canaris

that was not a good judgement!


only tirane knows whats good.


Quote:
He would like to post something he makes up, and that is choice, I have no problem with that. What he cant do, is posting about other nations in a forum that is for Albanians.


thats the idea. thats what this forum has becomed. i didnt start this, you did. but im sure, as good moderator you have moved my topic to the "proper" forum. wait, you did not.

Quote:
He knows that very well, and he doest it based on the same comlexity people like Dijedon have. They see Albanian forum as something where they are protected, untouched from foreign neighbors they hate so much.

You cannot be easy with arrogant stubborn people!



wrong, i post them here, so the people i want will see them. its that simple. i will not fight with all serbs (not all serbs visit here), only with the ones that sqweezing my balls.

Quote:
Albania that produces the most famous gangsters, mafious etc etc do not like to be told what to do.


thats not a way to judg people, but be serious. we know what type of gangsters serbia has produced....>arkan.
and we dont need that. we can see how youve become a dictetor in this forum. you have managed to create your own online regime.

Quote:
As you can see Labs are not able to make history. They are able only for Fecor and Mehmet Shehu type of terror/intrigues/servilism....

however, these labs cannot realise that Serbs in Bosnia entered history with that name and so are known today. They are not living in regions with other nations toponymy etc

like the lost greeko-slavo-vlachs of Laberia (Selenica, Drashovica, Zvernec, Kamenica etc etc) or Zagoria


we made history. we wiped your filthy tribes out.

Quote:
come on...be proud of your messed up ancestry.


yes nigger be proud of what you are.

Quote:
What's the funniest is that thesepeople think being a Lab is better than being a lost greeko-slavo (macedonian)-vlach of what was known as Epir....


heh?? what greeks, what slavs?? what maces?? maces didnt exist untill tito gave them life.
greeks with surnames like dede, shehu, tare, cipi?? im sure some greeks lived there, and it would be a honor having some relation with them. they are famous and far better people(morally) than you. youre the most annoying fuks i know, and somebody must be very sick in the head to be that annoying and mischevious

Tirane
Moderator
Posts: 529
(6/29/03 1:49 am)
Reply

Re: the forum
HTML Comments are not allowed

Edited by: shpata at: 6/29/03 2:00 am
shpata
Moderator
Posts: 638
(6/29/03 2:04 am)
Reply

Re: the forum
i dont know why all was erased. i only erased the kurvelsh joke you made. pprobably when i edited ive must have ceated an ezcode that brought that comment.

=================

anyway back to th topic. is the topinym topic all about just stating facts??? i think there are articles and encartas for that. you didnt not wish to discuss the topinym issue as youlle know it would get you nowhere.

and yes i found you very anti-albanian. you tell jokes such as maces created albanian nationalism. thats a joke. those guys couldnt create a ntionalism of their own. what they accomplished and are today iscompletely do to outside aid.
only in this century have they began their own.

shpata
Moderator
Posts: 639
(6/29/03 2:07 am)
Reply

Re: the forum
also im using your logic. with your logic there is no such thing as insult only "free thought". just as you are willing to make up bull$hit albos are caucasian or whatever (which is clearly an insult), ill do my own thing.

Tirane
Moderator
Posts: 531
(6/29/03 2:18 am)
Reply

Re: the forum
Be serious...

(1) you cant/ and you wont/ post in this forum postings outside of albanian context!

(2) toponymy is a fact, whether you like it or not it has nothing to do with posting it in here or not.

(3) macedonians have created your past, for sure. It is the name of your birthplaces origins it tells that; your unrecorded history etc etc

macedonian slavs have made (recorded) history in Balkans, on the contrary with you.
They were empire, created strong Metropoles etc etc

anti-albanian is not = anti-lab, nor = with what your forefathers have offered to be believed as albanianism.

you dont use logic, or at least I havent seen you using it till now.

I dont uderstand why are really so anxious about caucas origin? what if you really were from there what would you do then? matters are not settled yet!

in these anxiety is hidden all the primitive racism you have in your undeveloped minds.
One things is clear! you arent what you claim to be!

Dijedon
Amicus
Posts: 668
(6/29/03 2:28 am)
Reply

O shatė, leje kėtė "individ"
"(3) macedonians have created your past, for sure. It is the name of your birthplaces origins it tells that; your unrecorded history etc etc"

And the kenyans created MonteNigger-o.

Labs are albos, I see Shpata as a brother, Shpata, I greet you, jemi vėllezėr tė ni gjaku dhe cfardoqoftė qė thotė ky "i miri e neutrali" ne dy jemi i njėjti popull, andaj mos ia ve veshin kėtij!

What about toponyms in Greece? Does that mean that slavs created Greece to? Omg Tirane, you should write a book! Change the history!


Tirane
Moderator
Posts: 533
(6/29/03 2:30 am)
Reply

Re: O shatė, leje kėtė "individ"
yes the kennyans might have created montenegro, but those montenegrins who are albanian speaking, the unslavicized ones...

shpata
Moderator
Posts: 642
(6/29/03 2:30 am)
Reply

Re: the forum
1) be serious and stop posting crap.

2)topinomy is afact, nodoubt, but why are you just stating this information. better question what is a forum for if youre not willing to discuss the possibl scnerios.

3) macedonians are loosers. they were much smarter in the middle ages. i dont know what happened to them. their nationalism was developed by vlach and russians. to believe that they created by past is a joke.

Quote:
I dont uderstand why are really so anxious about caucas origin? what if you really were from there what would you do then? matters are not settled yet!



why? because you so easily believe it. yet there are no proofs at all. those soldiers of that general. they arent mentioned coming from sicily theyre just mentioned as being part of his army. if caucacus albs came from the sea middle east via sicily via albania than there must be some recordings of this shipment of people, migrating through byzantine sea.
and it all come with the crap you add. alb asian mentality.

Quote:
One things is clear! you arent what you claim to be!


what do i claim to be??

Dijedon
Amicus
Posts: 670
(6/29/03 2:38 am)
Reply

Make up you mind
No they created the monteniggers whom refer to themselves as monteniggaz, whereas albos dont.

Also, werent we founded by macs? Make up your mind Tirane, chechens, macs, kenyans?

Tirane
Moderator
Posts: 534
(6/29/03 2:38 am)
Reply

Re: the forum
you must be joking, if not illiterate!

It is clearly said that they had come with Georgies Maniakes from the campaignes they were doing in south iltaly. And t. winnifrith says, some claim they were albanians of alba longhia or the ones of the guard (Veragardian, something like that). Now, rememebr, royal guardians have been continuously turkish and tukicized populations among arabs!

macedonians are loosers?????

If so, far less than albanians. so again you have no guts to say anuthing about them. greeks...maybe...but not you, anyway.

they did history....(doesnt matter in middle ages or now). you have done nothing, but all you needed to explain your past in the way is being done in here. it is you who justify thoese theories, you are the best proof.

Dijedon
Amicus
Posts: 671
(6/29/03 2:40 am)
Reply

Shpato my lab brother
We albanians have done nothing? Keep on your scientific work man, I mean you“re really smart.

Shpatė, e ndėrrova mendjen, lėre kėtė tė vazhdon pasi komentėt e tija ia zbuluan ngjyret e fytyrės, e hjeku maskėn!

shpata
Moderator
Posts: 644
(6/29/03 2:47 am)
Reply

Re: the forum
caucacus people arent turkish. turks were invaders of the region.

labs created akingdom within a kingom(ali pasha). another albanian created the modern state of egypt. now you say we were royal guards. but in another posts you mentioned we are not brave like yugo people(we hide in the mountains). what royals would want to be guarded by hiding in the mountains??

will you make yp your mind!!!!

and if i read the article correctly the soldiers werent mentioned coming from sicily only that Georgies Maniakes was marching with latins and albanians through via egnita(somthing like that).

Tirane
Moderator
Posts: 537
(6/29/03 3:03 am)
Reply

Re: the forum
i read something about those albos in there. it said they were turkicized a lot even during they were invaeded from turks, because they had to share many times territory with other turkish tribes.

==============
i am serious with you...but this time i will lough...hahaha

ali pashe tepelena!!!!

he is a good personage for Sabri godo probably or someonelse within albania....

or muhamet ali of egypt! they were everything possible nut not (practical) albanians...

nobody knows them for such. once i was having a toristic tour and the leader said this...and this and she mentioned nuhanet ali of egypt, the turk!!!

Page 1 2 3 << Prev Topic | Next Topic >>

Add Reply

Email This To a Friend Email This To a Friend
Topic Control Image Topic Commands
Click to receive email notification of replies Click to receive email notification of replies
Click to stop receiving email notification of replies Click to stop receiving email notification of replies
jump to:

- Illyria (Balkans) Forums - Vlachs,Aromanians,Istriots,etc.. - Balkan Links (1200+) -

Powered By ezboard® Ver. 7.32
Copyright ©1999-2007 ezboard, Inc.