Quote:Thracian soldiers have always been part of the Roman troops (after year 46AD). They were brave, respected soldiers and many achieved higher ranks in the Roman legions. Such was the case with the ppl of Illyria (west from Thrace) - both ciounted as the best militaries of Rome.
are you sure? cause the roman policy was not to take any soldiers from conqoured peoples, only after they resettled the lands with 'romans' then they take peoples from that area and made them into soldiers. and by that time, the romans considered those people as romans, not thracian, or frank, or germanic.
Quote:When the empire was devided to west and east, Thracians took even bigger part in ruling/deffending Byzantium. They were part of it - it was their own Empire. That's why their troops were all around these areas - from Panonia to Asia Minor.
BAHAHAHAHA stupidest thing i've read....yes, it was their empire
Quote:Kubrat, I cannot start educating you here. Read, learn yourself!
calm down oh thracian one, i might actually know more than you.
Quote:No other european nation used titel "khan" or such chinese/turkic calendar.
are you sure???? cause i know of some, but they weren't nations until much later.
Quote:Khan's crown....Bulgar woman's traditional dress.
i too can find pictures and post them and say they represent somehting.
yea...i tapped that
Quote:cause the roman policy was not to take any soldiers from conqoured peoples, only after they resettled the lands with 'romans' then they take peoples from that area and made them into soldiers.
First they've tried for 200 years to coqouer Thrace. Finaly year 46AD Thrace became a Roman province. So after that year Thracians became (respected) citizen of Roman Empire, still reffered as Thracians.
Quote:BAHAHAHAHA stupidest thing i've read....
Do you have any idea how many of those who ruled Byzance had Thracian or Illyrian descent??! Do you know what Byzantion means? I see, how much you know, right..
Quote:are you sure???? cause i know of some, but they weren't nations until much later.
Do you mean states or nations...? If they aren't nation, so what are they then - bunch of merino sheep? Tell me what you know!
Quote:i too can find pictures and post them and say they represent somehting.
This pics are from a Bulgar site, which you should probably be ashamed to look at. Steppe Bulgars had no connection to ppl of Europe - also they were Turkic. Their neighbours were ppl like Avars, Pechenegs, Khazars etc. - all asiatic.
We do not see asiatic ppl in modern Bulgaria,.
Edited by: Rhezus at: 10/4/07 11:39 pm
Quote:First they've tried for 200 years to coqouer Thrace. Finaly year 46AD Thrace became a Roman province. So after that year Thracians became (respected) citizen of Roman Empire, still reffered as Thracians.
if they're still refered as thracian, than they are thracians, not romans.
if they refer to them as romans from thrace, that is different. once again. if they were just conqouered, then they would not have been used in the army, that would be against the roman policy of NOT using conqouered people's soldiers.
Quote:Do you have any idea how many of those who ruled Byzance had Thracian or Illyrian descent??! Do you know what Byzantion means? I see, how much you know, right.
those who ruled considered themselves Byzantines, not thracian, or illyrian or etc. Constantine the great was from the makedonia region, his roots are based in that region, but they all (his family) considered themselve Byzantine.
Byzantine refers to the ancient greek city of Byzantium, which the modern (at that time) people of byzantine directed their cultural efforts to immitate the ancient Byzantium
Quote:Do you mean states or nations...? If they aren't nation, so what are they then - bunch of merino sheep? Tell me what you know!
Magyars and khazars for europe alone. Iranians if u want to look at mid east.
i know what my professors have taught me, which appears to be nothing compared to what you know, their 8 years of studing for a PHD is nothing compared to you googling skills apperantly.
Quote:This pics are from a Bulgar site, which you should probably be ashamed to look at. Steppe Bulgars had no connection to ppl of Europe - also they were Turkic. Their neighbours were ppl like Avars, Pechenegs, Khazars etc. - all asiatic.
no one in europe had any connection with ppl in europe using ur logic! where do u think the celtc came from, the greeks? the thracians? u think the magically popped out of thin air and said " hey, i'm greek, wtf are you?"
Turkic according to whom? the russians who controlled the history books for 60 years?
the steppe Bulgars also had neighbours like the Rus, the arabs, the Iranians, the byzantines, the serbs, the croats, the franks, etc. are they all asiatic too? maybe they're thracian?
Quote:if they refer to them as romans from thrace, that is different
Hey chap, do you know what you're talking about..
Quote:Constantine the great was from the makedonia region, his roots are based in that region
If Serdica was a Macedonian region, that's fine...
Constantine the Great was from Serdica (Sofia)!! That town had a Thracian population, more exactly the Serdi tribe..
Bravo Kubrat!!
www.kroraina.com/thracia/serdica/serdica_en.htm
I suspect your profesors are Canadians or Americans..
Ask them about the Indian tribes who used to say said the word "Kanata"..Edited by: Rhezus at: 10/5/07 1:20 am
Quote:Hey chap, do you know what you're talking about..
do you know what you're taling about???
Quote:If Serdica was a Macedonian region, that's fine...
Constantine the Great was from Serdica (Sofia)!! That town had a Thracian population, more exactly the Serdi tribe..
Bravo Kubrat!!
bravo rhezus!!
[Sofia Sofia Sofia Sofia
Ps. i don't know if you know this, but the size and georgraphy of "makedonia" has always changed throughout history.
Quote:I suspect your profesors are Canadians or Americans..
Ask them about the Indian tribes who used to say said the word "Kanata"
before that i should ask them what the phrase "wups, rhezus f*cked up" means. yea...i tapped that
Quote:The town received its name Ulpia Serdica from Roman emperor Mark Ulpi Traian (96 - 111 A.C.). He named it "Serdica" since its original inhabitants were Serdians - one of the Thracian tribes. However, in order to be remembered as a founder of the town, the emperor added also the name of his father - Ulpi.
from your link: www.kroraina.com/thracia/...ica_en.htm
the wording in the article states that the orginal inhabitants are serdian, and then it says to be remembered as founder of the town, it emplies that city, was no longer a city, or at least that the original inhabitants where no longer there.
bravo rhezus, try not to misinterpretated anything else now.
yea...i tapped that
londonergb Registered User
Posts: 41
(10/5/07 5:40 pm)
Re: On the Greek position about Macedonia?
Anything new about the Thracian language?Apart from the dozen or so preserved words,mostly toponyms,like the old name of my town for exemple Beroea...Unlike the Serbo-Croats the Bulgarians proved to be much more keen on preserving the Thracian names of towns rivers and mountains.Slavs especialy are very good at renaming things but why in our lands they made so many exceptions?!
I read quite recently about a bulgarian guy who claimed to have deciphered a script on a ring I think it was..Thracian written in greek letters...The absurd thing is that he read it by assuming it to be XX c.bulgarian
and his translation made sense but I believe this is an utter fraud...Do you believe it could have been a parent language with slavic?
Actually it is the script on the golden ring from Ezerovo I just found it;
londonergb Registered User
Posts: 42
(10/5/07 8:03 pm)
Re: On the Greek position about Macedonia?
On this map it could be seen that Thracian belongs to the Eastern group of Indo-European languages,while Ilirian and Greek fall into the Western branch, therefore it should have been closer to slavic rather than grek or ilirian...en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Centum_Satem_map.pngEdited by: londonergb at: 10/5/07 8:12 pm
Re: On the Greek position about Macedonia?
i think the slavic factor in the Bulgarian gene is way over-rated. my opinion about the main ehtnicities in our genes would be (in order):
1)Bulgar
2)Thracian
3)slavic
4)whatever else.
but i do think the dominant factor is the Bulgar, and followed by Thracian.
yea...i tapped that
Quote:Ps. i don't know if you know this, but the size and georgraphy of "makedonia" has always changed throughout history.
I don't really care about the geaography of Macedonia, but Serdica was not such an area. The population of Serdica was Thracian - ppl there were not Macedonians. Constanine The Great counted Serdica as his hometown and his mother was from that town.
Byzantium consisted mainly of Thraco - Illyrian ppl. It was ruled by these ppl (mainly from the provinces of Panonia, Thrace and Illyria).
Quote:The town received its name Ulpia Serdica from Roman emperor Mark Ulpi Traian (96 - 111 A.C.).
Yeah, in the period of the Great Roman Empire - before it was splited into two separate. But that is not the vital issue here.
Quote:it says to be remembered as founder of the town, it emplies that city, was no longer a city, or at least that the original inhabitants where no longer there.
Haha.. of course Serdi ppl smelted, vanished and left the town empty and ready for steppe Bulgars to settle. What a nonsence!! Prof. Dimitar Popov was trying to explain many times that such thing did not happen in Thrace. Ther's no power which could make such a thing against all local pupolation (so that it "disapears"). There've been cultural or ethnic regroupings, which demanded quite long period of time. And after such a thing they could be renamed, i.e. all Roman, all Bulgarian citizen or whatever else..
Edited by: Rhezus at: 10/6/07 1:32 am
Quote:Slavs especialy are very good at renaming things but why in our lands they made so many exceptions?!
That proves again who was the local population of Thrace. The predominat one..
Quote:On this map it could be seen that Thracian belongs to the Eastern group of Indo-European languages
The language of Thracians (and Dacians) is related both to the Baltic Latvian and the dialects spoken in parts of Illyria. Thracians used Hellenic/Greek letters, but their religious customs did not allow them to have a written thracian lang.
Quote:I think Rhezus that the crown from your pic is Ivan Grozni's crown...
Nope, this a Bulgar crown.. of those Bulgars who stayed in the steppes of Russia.
Edited by: Rhezus at: 10/6/07 2:11 am
Quote:I don't really care about the geaography of Macedonia, but Serdica was not such an area. The population of Serdica was Thracian - ppl there were not Macedonians. Constanine The Great counted Serdica as his hometown and his mother was from that town.
how do you know how constantine counted serdica as his hometown when he was born in Nis?
Quote:Byzantium consisted mainly of Thraco - Illyrian ppl. It was ruled by these ppl (mainly from the provinces of Panonia, Thrace and Illyria)
go say that in the greek forum ahahahah
Quote:Yeah, in the period of the Great Roman Empire - before it was splited into two separate. But that is not the vital issue here.
it's not, but you're making it the issue.
Quote:Haha.. of course Serdi ppl smelted, vanished and left the town empty and ready for steppe Bulgars to settle. What a nonsence!! Prof. Dimitar Popov was trying to explain many times that such thing did not happen in Thrace. Ther's no power which could make such a thing against all local pupolation (so that it "disapears" . There've been cultural or ethnic regroupings, which demanded quite long period of time. And after such a thing they could be renamed, i.e. all Roman, all Bulgarian citizen or whatever else..
are you sure such things did not and could not happen? Many western sources state the the Blakans where underpopulated.
and there is a power than can make people leave. money. if the economy went downhill, ppl would've left, if the trade suffered. you urself said the byzantine used thracian soldiers, well they all had to move then.
and you don't need a long time, but i guess if you consider when thrace fell, 46 AD according to you, and by the time Kuber's Bulgars came, it could be considered a VERY long time.
yea...i tapped that
Quote:That proves again who was the local population of Thrace. The predominat one..
this proves nothing, no rational scholar could come to that conclusion using the previous statement, the argument is flawed, and it's not even sound.
Quote:Thracians used Hellenic/Greek letters, but their religious customs did not allow them to have a written thracian lang.
wtf is this???
you're saying their heritage didn't allow them to progress from an oral form of communication to a written form? so in that case they couldn't adapt to the change in communication that went in par with the major changes of Human society. Rhezus, do u not see the impossibility of this concept? No society that wants to prolong it's existance will willing sabotage itself like that. this comment is sheer briliance...
Quote:Nope, this a Bulgar crown.. of those Bulgars who stayed in the steppes of Russia.
according to whom?
also keep in mind the vast amount of external influences those Bulgars had, they were in the main trade route that went through russia, heavily influenced by islam, and other waring nations and peoples.
yea...i tapped that
Quote:how do you know how constantine counted serdica as his hometown when he was born in Nis?
Mo matter where he was born, his origin was Thracian. His mother wanted him to make the hometown Serdica as capital for Bysantium, but at the end he decided for the more strategic city and renamed it to Constantinopol.
Quote:go say that in the greek forum ahahahah
Greek were the ppl who twisted ancient history the most. They demand everything Greek! Even the Thracians (described absolutely as non hellenic) greek claim them as hellenic (too bad...part of Eagean Thrace is now in Greece). They used to make Thracian philosopher "citizen of Athens" - ppl like Pitagor and Demokrit as example. Names of all ppl and places were "grecisized", when named in their books. The ancient culture was both Thraco/hellenic and not Hellenic only.
Quote:..if the economy went downhill, ppl would've left, if the trade suffered. you urself said the byzantine used thracian soldiers..
Byzantines and Thracians were one and the same thing. I told it was the epmire of thracian, illyrian, panonians (+ greeks). They would never leave thier own lands... on the contrary, these lands were rich and many other ppl wanted to settle right there (let's name i.e. the slavic and the steppe bulgars).
Quote:but i guess if you consider when thrace fell, 46 AD according to you, and by the time Kuber's Bulgars came, it could be considered a VERY long time.
It's not that simple as you think. Thrace became a Roman province that year and Thracians considered Rome as the big Empire and they as part of it. They were influenced by Rome a lot, but still the ppl of Thrace were known as Thracians. When steppe bulgars came it was different. They were different. They were not one with the local population, they rename the place. It took very long time and at the end bulgars were assimilated by the locals, despite the fact name of the new state was Bulgaria, ppl did not turn to bulgars. You see how today Bulgarians look like - still non bulgaric.
Edited by: Rhezus at: 10/6/07 11:29 am
Quote:Mo matter where he was born, his origin was Thracian. His mother wanted him to make the hometown Serdica as capital for Bysantium, but at the end he decided for the more strategic city and renamed it to Constantinopol
where did u get this idea from?
Quote:Greek were the ppl who twisted ancient history the most
no arguement here
Quote:It's not that simple as you think. Thrace became a Roman province that year and Thracians considered Rome as the big Empire and they as part of it. They were influenced by Rome a lot, but still the ppl of Thrace were known as Thracians. When steppe bulgars came it was different. They were different. They were not one with the local population, they rename the place. It took very long time and at the end bulgars were assimilated by the locals, despite the fact name of the new state was Bulgaria, ppl did not turn to bulgars. You see how today Bulgarians look like - still non bulgaric.
what local population? the argument here is that by the time te Bulgars arrived the minimunm ethnic population had minimal effects on the demographics.
if anything, the local population was slaic.
yea...i tapped that
londonergb Registered User
Posts: 43
(10/6/07 7:07 pm)
Re: On the Greek position about Macedonia?
Quote:Byzantines and Thracians were one and the same thing. I told it was the epmire of thracian, illyrian, panonians (+ greeks). They would never leave thier own lands... on the contrary, these lands were rich and many other ppl wanted to settle right there (let's name i.e. the slavic and the steppe bulgars).
Rhezus I believe You mean Peonians instead of Panonians;
Panonia is mainly present day Hungary-never been part of Eastern Roman Empire...
If it is Peonians indeed You need not to mention them separately all the time they were just one of the Thracian peoples....same as Bessi Medi Getae etc...
yea...i tapped that 
If they aren't nation, so what are they then - bunch of merino sheep? Tell me what you know! 
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