Re: Azeri are Turks
Azeris are the descendents of Oghuz tribe just like we are.
But you are free to deny it, of course.. However, the reality won't be disappeared by being denied.
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A Turk survives for Vatan, Kur'an and Ezan
azeriperson Registered User
Posts: 32
(8/13/06 10:23 am)
Re: Azeri are Turks
guys seriously this paniranist-panturkist thing has gotten too far. im really tired of witnessing iranians and turks arguing over who azeris r: iranian or turkic. the funny thing is: azeris (like myself) r almost never part of such discussions
why dont u just accept the fact that azeris r azeris? yes, we do have a great deal of both oghuz turkic and north iranian in us. we r proud of our turkic and our iranian heritage. we celebrate novrouz and read dede-qorqud. we speak an iranian influenced turkic language. but whats up with trying to associate us with either of those? who r u ppl to deny us the right to be distinct?
Edited by: azeriperson at: 8/13/06 10:23 am
a
Guys, this is what I meant when I said the Turkic people that I've met were cold-aloof to the idea of Turkic solidarity yet alone unity. The Russians really @#%$ed them up.Edited by: benetton senetme at: 8/13/06 11:10 am
Quote:yes, we do have a great deal of both oghuz turkic and north iranian in us. we r proud of our turkic and our iranian heritage
Quote:
an iranian influenced turkic language
Ýnfluenced how?
Quote:but whats up with trying to associate us with either of those?
read your own quotes.
Quote:who r u ppl to deny us the right to be distinct?
You are as Distinct as Gagauz or Uzbek
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azeriperson Registered User
Posts: 34
(8/13/06 11:15 am)
Re: a
2 benetton
before joining any culture/race based alliances azerbaijan first needs to achieve unity within itself. and due to the diversed nature of its society, this will never be achieved by choosing one cultural orientation over the other. thats why i never truly understood all these pan(whatever)isms. there r mostly discriminative and provide absolutely no political benefits
azeriperson Registered User
Posts: 35
(8/13/06 11:24 am)
Re: a
2 desire
i would have commented on ur posting if u had understood the real purpose of me posting that. for instance, the part about being proud of the heritage should be read AS A WHOLE, and not in fragments that may suit one's personal opinion
Re: Azeri are Turks
so no answer as to how it is a Ýranian influenced Turkic language?
also the flag etc
can u give me some examples of Ýranian Ýnfluence...
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azeriperson Registered User
Posts: 36
(8/13/06 11:36 am)
Re: Azeri are Turks
///can u give me some examples of Ýranian Ýnfluence///
shia islam
safavi heritage
celebration of novrouz
zoroastrian symbolism
azeri poets writing exclusively in persian up until the 16th century
90% of mugham sub genres having iranian names
theres more of course... however this does not dismiss what azeris inherited from the turkic part of their ancestors
///so no answer as to how it is a Ýranian influenced Turkic language?///
well i cant possibly list all the iranian rooted vocabulary and grammar here can i
Edited by: azeriperson at: 8/13/06 11:38 am
Quote:shia islam
safavi heritage
celebration of novrouz
zoroastrian symbolism
azeri poets writing exclusively in persian up until the 16th century
90% of mugham sub genres having iranian names
Shia Ýslam was what 99% of Turks were till the Ottoman Empire... Ýslam is a Religious Ýnfluence.
Nevruz is celebrated in every Turk Country and also by Kurds.
Zoastrian Symbolism is used how much ? lol
Poets can use many diff languages to write in.. doesnt change the fact thery are Turkish lol
Quote:
well i cant possibly list all the iranian rooted vocabulary and grammar here can i
Azeri is eligable clearly to Turks everywhere in the world.. yet not to Ýranians.. so this theory lacks any weight
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azeriperson Registered User
Posts: 37
(8/13/06 12:09 pm)
Re: Azeri are Turks
//Shia Ýslam was what 99% of Turks were till the Ottoman Empire...//
thats incorrect. safavis used to engage in wars with ottomans because of these differences. the ottoman empire was a perfect example of a purely classic sunni islam society. shiism originated in iran and only gained support in iranian controlled territories
//Nevruz is celebrated in every Turk Country and also by Kurds.//
oh no. novrouz in azerbaijan is a BIG, BIG deal. its a national holiday full of rites and customs. i mean one can go on and on with this. in a nutshell, u can only compare it to celebrating christmas in the west - thats how important novrouz is to azeris. its enough to say that an azerbaijani representative in the soviet parliament was ordered assasinated by superior kremlin communists cuz of his attempts to legalize the celebration of novrouz in azerbaijan back in the 1970s
//Zoastrian Symbolism is used how much ?//
enough to etymologically explain the name 'azerbaijan' for example. let alone national symbols like ateshgah
//Poets can use many diff languages to write in//
exactly. however they tend to use languages that influence them the most.
//Azeri is eligable clearly to Turks everywhere in the world.. yet not to Ýranians..//
no doubt... i never said azeri was an iranian language. its turkic but it uses a whole load of iranian vocabulary. i would say more than any other turkic language
Edited by: azeriperson at: 8/13/06 12:14 pm
Quote:thats incorrect. safavis used to engage in wars with ottomans because of these differences. the ottoman empire was a perfect example of a purely classic sunni islam society. shiism originated in iran and only gained support in iranian controlled territories
Ý said Till.. means until the ottomans turned Sunni
Quote:oh no. novrouz in azerbaijan is a BIG, BIG deal. its a national holiday full of rites and customs. i mean one can go on and on with this. in a nutshell, u can only compare it to celebrating christmas in the west - thats how important novrouz is to azeris. its enough to say that an azerbaijani representative in the soviet parliament was assasinated by superior kremlin communists cuz of his attempts to legalize the celebration of novrouz in azerbaijan back in the 1970s
Same in ozbekistan, khazakistan etc.. so ?
Quote:
enough to explain the name 'azerbaijan' for example. let alone national symbols like ateshgah
not really thats only a theory.. nothing decisive
Quote:exactly. however they tend to use languages that influence them the most.
not really... more depends on the style they are writing in. Turkiye has a lot of persian words.. yet we are Turks.
Quote:no doubt... i never said azeri was an iranian language. its turkic but it uses a whole load of iranian vocabulary. i would say more than any other turkic language
nah its like saying English uses a lot of Latin n Greek words.. doesnt make them Ýtalian or Greek
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azeriperson Registered User
Posts: 38
(8/13/06 6:27 pm)
Re: Azeri are Turks
//Ý said Till.. means until the ottomans turned Sunni//
hahaha. u dont 'turn' sunni. sunni islam is older than shia. it was sunnis who turned shias not vice versa. anyone barely familiar with the middle eastern history would know this
//Same in ozbekistan, khazakistan etc.. so ?//
trust me. it isnt nearly as similar
//not really thats only a theory.. nothing decisive//
its not a theory, its a known fact. ask any azeri what 'azerbaijan' means and theyll be happy to tell u
//not really... more depends on the style they are writing in//
what do u mean by 'style'? what does that have to do with cultural influences? middle eastern poets used the same styles - qasidas, masnavis, rubais, etc. but not all of them wrote exclusively in persian like azeri poets before the 16th century
//nah its like saying English uses a lot of Latin n Greek words//
and ure going to deny the existence of a tremendous graeco-roman influence on the english culture? if yes then i dont think theres any point in continuing this discussion
Edited by: azeriperson at: 8/13/06 6:29 pm
Quote:hahaha. u dont 'turn' sunni. sunni islam is older than shia. it was sunnis who turned shias not vice versa. anyone barely familiar with the middle eastern history would know this
ok u need to understand this.. Turks were Shi'ites until they were given the caliphate.. u understand now?
Quote:trust me. it isnt nearly as similar
why should Ý trust u i have friends from those places.. i know it is the same.
Quote:its not a theory, its a known fact. ask any azeri what 'azerbaijan' means and theyll be happy to tell u
Meaning of the flag of Azerbaijan
The meaning of the colours of the flag was defined by the nationalist leader Ali Bey Hussein Zade as follows:
* blue represents the need of Turkization;
* green represents the need of Islamization;
* red represents the need of modernization and progress, following the European example
even if the word derives from persian.. the word Turk derives from chinese it doesnt prove anything.
Quote:
what do u mean by 'style'? what does that have to do with cultural influences? middle eastern poets used the same styles - qasidas, masnavis, rubais, etc. but not all of them wrote exclusively in persian like azeri poets before the 16th century
The Ottomans wrote in persian too but they were clearly Turks
Quote:and ure going to deny the existence of a tremendous graeco-roman influence on the english culture? if yes then i dont think theres any point in continuing this discussion
Ýnfluence wise there is more Grek and Latin influence in english then there is in Azeri..
btw Ýf Azeri is so influenced by persian how comes iranians dont understand azeri but turks do?
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Re: Azeri are Turks
Azeriperson, did you know that Turkey refuses to establish diplomatic relations with Armenia, the most important reason being not to offend our Azeri ''brothers''? If the overwhelming majority of Azeris think along the same lines as you concerning Turks, then I think our failure to establish those diplomatic relations with Armenia and the military support that we extend to Azerbaijan are big foreign policy mistakes. Feelings of brotherhood on the side of Turks towards Azeris seems unreciprocated....
One more reason why we Turks can count only on ourselves... Disillusioning...
azeriperson Registered User
Posts: 39
(8/14/06 5:23 am)
Re: Azeri are Turks
2 benetton
what do u mean by "think along the same lines as you concerning Turks"? what specifically do u think my opinion on Turks is? tell me, i wanna know
all ive been saying is strictly in regards with Azerbaijan. i never expressed a single piece of opinion on Turkey and Turks and their relations with Azerbaijan. plz dont rephrase my words to "discover the truth" about Azeris. i recognize Turkey as one of Azerbaijan's closest allies and do appreciate its tremendous support. why do u purposefully distort my statements to make me sound anti-Turkish?
see ppl, thats why i hate these ethnic based discussions. every time i try to prove my point, someone pops up and starts twisting my words around in such a way that by the end of the day everybody thinks all ive been doing was criticizing Turkey/Iran/Russia/etc. simply outragerous...
i see no point in going on with this clownery. especially when ppl like benetton quote on stuff that i never said and draw offensive conclusions concerning an entire nation out of them
id be happy to answer questions about Azeris and Azerbaijan if anyone has any. and by questions i mean real questions, and not template statements that tell me what i should consider myself and whose culture i need to favour more...
Re: Azeri are Turks
Ý think what Azeri persons point of view is one of mixed ancestory.
Where a more nationalistic view will come to light.
there are many azeri who disagree with ur view.
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azeriperson Registered User
Posts: 40
(8/27/06 3:44 am)
Re: Azeri are Turks
2 desire
maybe but thats not the point
i mean i just witnessed a turkish user here verbally attacking me and badmouthing azerbaijan just cuz i disagreed with the theory that azeris r plain turks as opposed to being of mixed ancestry which includes turks among others (btw wikipedia has got some neat info on azeris with all the scientific ethno genetic whatnot - i suggest that u check it out). mind u, this is not the first time i come across something like this.
its depressing that some people's positive attitude towards azerbaijan lasts only for as long as azeris call themselves turks and deny the existence of heritage thats non-turkic in origin. its like making friends with a person who u think is blond and ditching him after finding out that he's actually a brunet
Edited by: azeriperson at: 8/27/06 3:49 am
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