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Babak Andishmand
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Posts: 37
(10/3/04 11:07 pm)
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Edited by: Babak Andishmand at: 8/18/08 1:15 pm
Brandon Freels
ezOP
Posts: 93
(10/4/04 9:24 am)
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Re: MK Shibeck's " artism "
"Artism" is a term we started using here in Portland after reading The Consul by Ralph Rumney (p. 83). "Artism" refers to the the subordination of creativity to the function of producing "spectacular market commodities [that lack] any significance beyond their market value."

Babak Andishmand
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Posts: 38
(10/4/04 10:23 am)
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Edited by: Babak Andishmand at: 8/18/08 1:15 pm
Brandon Freels
ezOP
Posts: 94
(10/4/04 1:25 pm)
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Re: MK Shibeck's " artism "
Isn't the art world itself a product of the bourgeoisie? I think of "artism" as a tendency, a way of thinking about creativity, rather than something that is in art. I see the concept of "art" itself as part of the problem. Later tonight I will try and post Rumney's definition of the "artist" to clarify things, hopefully.

Babak Andishmand
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Posts: 39
(10/4/04 10:30 pm)
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Edited by: Babak Andishmand at: 8/18/08 1:15 pm
Brandon Freels
ezOP
Posts: 95
(10/5/04 1:26 pm)
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Re: MK Shibeck's " artism "
You don't have to use the word if you don't want to. I use it to identify a tendency rather than a group of people.

There is a lot called "art" that isn't an expression/mirage of your inner feelings.

Riversnake
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Posts: 67
(10/6/04 6:24 pm)
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More on Artism
I was aware of Rumney's definition of artism, but I may have used it a bit more loosely from time to time. I agree with Rumney that artism would encompass the production of art as commodities, but also think that necessarily going along with that artism is an elitist attidue regarding talent as it is valued by the market or even by the unquestioned ramparts of 'culture', etc.

In addition to that elitism boosted by commercial appeal, the notion of talent and the artists' separateness from 'non artists' is involved. I am not against 'talent' per se but it is only one aspect of human expression, and in my view is bound up with the release and development of our inner resources in all their various forms.

It is conceivable that someone could call someone 'talented' without buying into the oppressive myths of artist as specialist in the midst of those separated from their own creative and destructive forces. Of course, my bias leads me to feel that the word 'talent' has aquired an automatic stigma. I shy away from using the word 'talent' or 'talented,' for the most part, because the ways in which I conceive of that word being poetically useful diverge from the common, bourgeous, capitalist notion of talent and its accompanying prestige...

This is possibly contained in the Rumney book but it's been two years since I read it so my memory isn't fresh.

It's good when surrealists put forward different terms and contexts for creative and expressive pursuits. That is something that could certainly happen more as the overcoming of reified talent and the capitalist artism is in my mind a deep part of surrealist practice.

Sh.








Brandon Freels
ezOP
Posts: 96
(10/6/04 7:36 pm)
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Re: MK Shibeck's " artism "
Yeah, I agree with Shibek in that my use of the term "artism" often signifies the snobby-high-horse-specialist-art-for-art-sake aspect of the art world, not just the commercial aspect. Although I do think the two are connected.

Riversnake
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Posts: 68
(10/7/04 12:41 am)
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Re: MK Shibeck's " artism "
A quick note...

As to whether or not artism is the same as the bourgeousie in art--
You would have to look at the history of art and the development of the artistic prestige, role of serving the church, for example, and other factors, to be able to tell if artism came before the rise of the bourgeois classes. I think that it did, but there were exceptions and heretics too.

So maybe in modern times, artism is bourgeois...but artism is older than the class relation that emerged in Europe when feudalism fell.
Or so I would guess!

Sh.

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